Vote Nader!

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Disclaimer: the following is the opinion of me as a person and not as a member of the U.S. Armed Forces.

I've read the threads from people that hate President Bush and the threads from people that aren't too keen on Kerry taking over the White House. It would appear that neither candidate looks like they'll be that good for the country. But, what choice do we have? It's a two party system! We have to vote for one or the other, don't we? (if you read the title of this thread, you know that you don't).

Take a look at Nader. Here's a guy that doesn't believe in dragging a country into a war just because he knows that it can affect him financially in the future. He'll never take bribes from special interests, and he's not the kind of person that uses "Vote for me! I'm not the other guy!" as his campaign slogan. He has some really good views and he really cares about the middle class American. The working guy. The guy who buys Magic cards for reasons other than tournaments!

Vote Nader: The Casual Choice!

-Ferret
 
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conservative_infidel

Guest
The only way I could see a third party candidate climbing in is through one of the two existing parties. After the Perot and Nader effect, I don't imagine we'll see 3p hats in the ring for quite some time.

I know other countries have multiple party candidates, but honestly, I think it does more to harm in an election than help. Candidates could be elected with a small percentage (22%) of the vote.

Hey, what about an election playoffs right after Superbowl. Special interests could cheerlead while the rest of us scream for someone's head to be taken off!
 
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Notepad

Guest
I'm sure its been said enough times to be a dead horse, but I'll say it here:

A third party would be awesome, but the fact of the matter is, as the way society currently is, the only thing a third party can do is get recognition in a slow climb to achievement as a true third party worthy of competing on an equal basis with the two big boys. The problem is, this election season looks to be one of the worst times for a third party to try to do that, because its either 4 more years of Bush, or 4 more years of Not Bush. Faced with that dismal choice, people are polarized and don't want a third party interrupting their votes (especially Democrats, who stand to lose the more voters to the third party). At a time when such a crucial decision must be made, between crap and total feces, people don't want to go and jeapordize their votes and wind up with total feces. For that reason, people should not support a third party this time.

Though, at any other time besides a hot contest like this, I would certainly be in favor of gaining support for the third party. I vote for Nader last time, and would repeat that it I were voting in the election of 2000 all over again, due to Gore's considerable lead over Bush (whoever woulda known it was the ballots in Florida that would muck up the whole process?)

Funny enough, I hear a lot of liberal pundits on the radio say that the votes for Nader in Florida, had they gone to Gore, would have won Gore the election, hanging chad incident or no. It would've been enough of a swing to cause this whole mess about recounts to be insubstantial. So, understandably, a lot of folks are pretty ticked off at third party ideas, and especially ticked at Nader.

He's good people though.
 
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conservative_infidel

Guest
I think Florida recount was the equivilant of electoral Viagra for dangling chad. Let's see if other states make the change and rise to the occasion of tallying a simple vote.
 
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conservative_infidel

Guest
Although I'm a righty-tighty, I enjoyed this writer's paper.

Check-see HERE
 
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train

Guest
The third party won't be successful, at any time, for any reason I can think of...

sorry guys...:rolleyes:
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
I guess the major problem w/ Third Parties is most voters can't think beyond the concept of black and white. Years and years of brainwashing people to thinking that there are only two schools of thought to politics (which is only one school of thought if you look at the heart of it) so that a third party approach seems almost like it's a foreign language...

-Ferret

"...and we know how much Americans hate to learn foreign languages..."
 
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Chaos Turtle

Guest
I won't be voting for Nader this election, but I would like to make a prediction regarding a third political party.

Within my lifetime, I expect, if neither of the two major parties halts their headlong drives to the liberl/conservative extremes, a third party will develop that more accurately represents what the majority of people are concerned with. I'd like to believe that moderates could wrest control of one of the two parties from it's extremists, but that would just be wishful thinking on my part. (Although the Republicans put on a damned good show of pretend moderation at their convention -- Zell Miller being a glaring exception -- their party platform reveals the thinking of those truly running the show.)
 
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dw51688

Guest
I have no issues with people voting third-party if they really believe in the core values of the party. I do have issues with people who seemingly vote third-party as a means of protest. I agree that third-parties should exist, but I also agree that they will never really make a difference. America craves a two-party system, a system with majority. I can hardly imagine a system like Britain's where Green Party, Libertarians, Democrats, Republicans, etc etc are battling it out in Congress over a bill that no-one agrees upon. It'd be utter chaos, America can't survive under a multi-party system. The best way in my mind would be to have the third-parties caucus within their respective 'parent parties.' Have the libertarians and constitutionalists battle it out within the Republican party and have the use the Republican party as the vehicle through which they can have their voices heard.
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Those sentiments sound fine on paper (or digits in this case), but it just perpetuates the main problem w/ this country: Too many people only think in terms of black & white (or Red & Blue). It's like they say "Well, I can't vote for him because he's a Republican - so, I'll vote Democrat) or he doesn't worship god the same way I do so he must be an evil satanist. That kind of talk just encourages people to be mindless drones being pushed around by a bunch of rich old white men (from both parties!) that really don't care what any of their constituents think. All they care about is their positions of absolute power and whatever it takes to keep them.

-Ferret

"Third parties may not be the best solution, but right now we don't have too many more of them..."
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Originally posted by Ferret
Third parties may not be the best solution, but right now we don't have too many more of them...
I don't think there is a "solution" in politics. A lot of people are obsessed with politics. I think that's for the same reason people get fixated on a lot of other issues: they tend to be "mindless drones being pushed around." They don't want to think or act for themselves. They want some sort of magical solution where they do almost nothing themselves but where everything works out perfectly.
 
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Reverend Love

Guest
Ferret

Check out the American Patriot Party.

Little on the isolationist side of things, and they do thump the bible pretty hard. But I really like their idea about state's rights, war going through congress and congress only, and leashing in some of the presidents current powers. I also love their take on foreign aid. Why fund corrupt officials? If a country needs train rails, and locomotives, buy them and ship'em over. Don't just line scum bags pockets with OUR tax dollars. :mad:
 
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Istanbul

Guest
If there's anything American needs less of, it's political Bible-thumping.

News flash to everyone out there: Not All Americans Are Christians.
And it's pretty offensive to just assume that we are.
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Don't even get me started about that whole "One Nation Under God" stuff. Here in Iraq a lot of us get pretty stressed so we have this incredible resource called Chaplins. They're usually nice guys, but 80% of them are Xtian, about 15% Catholic, 4% Jewish, and 1% Muslim - I heard that there are one or two Budhist Chaplins floating around (the numbers are estimates). This leaves Pagans (along w/ Witches and other New Agey type people) from getting any real guidance w/o any kind of religious overtones that make us want to puke.

I remember when I first got to Ft Bragg I met up w/ the Batallion Chaplin and he asked me what my religion was and when I told him he said w/ an almost condescending tone "Really? Could you describe that to me and tell me why you chose it?" I tried to be polite - after all, he was a Major - but I was really insulted.

Later on when I got here I found out they had a Karate course. I thought this would be a nice workout for PT - then, I found out it was being given by a Chaplin and it wasn't just any Karate; it was Cristian Karate. Needless to say I never had a second session.

Last election the only thing I seemed to see the candidates agree on was that they were both "god-fearing christians". Annoying.

I think that if this country will ever have a good leader he'll need to be a genetically engineered atheist eunuch...

-Ferret

"If god is all-loving, why does he need to be feared?"
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
You have to remember the "under God" part was put in during the '50s during the "commie scare" (and thus ungodless ones).

And you should probably be blaming your fellow witches for not representing themselves in the armed forces...
 
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Reverend Love

Guest
Istanbul

Preach it brother. As an Atheist I’m pretty sick of everyone throwing their damn religious sensitivity in my face. BUT I don’t discard honest merits based on a person or group’s religious inclinations. Would I be happier if the American Patriot party abstained from religion? Absolutely. But I like enough of what they say to tolerate their religious beliefs.

Ferret

It's numbers. The military could honestly care less about your religion, or anyone else’s for that matter. When they come down with the figures for X chaplains they're doing a number crunch. While it'd be nice to have every religion represented, it's simply not viable.
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by Spiderman
You have to remember the "under God" part was put in during the '50s during the "commie scare" (and thus ungodless ones).

And you should probably be blaming your fellow witches for not representing themselves in the armed forces...
Actually, you'd be shocked to find out how many Witches/Pagans are in the armed forces. I know of four that are in my batalion alone. You can even have "Wiccan" on your dog-tags as your religious preference. The military does acknowledge our presence, but they still are completely dominated by Xtians. I know their trying to accomodate the largest growing religion in the country (it's true - percentage wise our numbers grow more than any other religion in the States). I guess, I'm just impatient.

On an unrelated note, it's interesting to me that most of the pagan/witches I've met are not the "tree-hugging" hippies that people think we are. Most of us are pretty conservative - of course, our religions are older than most other faiths out there, so this shouldn't be a real surprise.

I guess I'm just being tired of being treated like we're just some "fad" religion that no takes seriously...

-Ferret

"We are everywhere" <- saw it on a T-shirt once
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I'm a bit unclear on how the Army (or any armed forces I guess) fills the chaplain slot. Is it volunteer, with the individual taking the initiative of asking to be one and getting it if qualified? Or does the armed force issue a "need x chaplains of this religion to serve" call and sees who shows up? Or does the individual ask to be one but even if qualified, has to wait until slots open up, either general or of that particular religion? Or another option not mentioned?
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
That's a good question. Most of the ones I've met are pastors in the civilian world. I wonder what would happen if a High Priestess (w/ the required Master's Degree and other criteria necessary) said she wanted to be a Chaplain...I wonder if the military would allow it. I may have to write someone about this...

-Ferret

"Yummy food for thought"
 
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