UW Flicker Force

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Terentius, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. Terentius The Instigator

    This is made up of cards I had lying around from dismantled duel decks and things sitting in my rare binder. It is a counterpart of sorts to that UW control deck I posted, and they share some cards.

    Creatures: 15
    4x Wall of Omens
    2x Perplexing Chimera
    3x Frost Titan
    2x Angel of Serenity
    1x Sunblast Angel
    1x Resolute Angel
    2x Iona, Shield of Emeria

    Instants, sorceries, artifacts, auras: 22
    4x Cloudshift
    4x Turn to Mist
    4x Preordain
    2x Brainstorm
    3x Mystic Speculation
    4x Aethermage's Touch
    1x Quicksilver Amulet

    Planeswalkers: 2
    2x Venser, the Sojourner

    Lands: 21
    3x Sejiri Refuge
    7x Plains
    7x Island
    4x Arcane Lighthouse
    60 cards

    For those unfamiliar, the main goal is to cast Aethermage's Touch (usually on opponent's turn), land a big creature with an ETB effect, then cheat the return to hand clause with a flicker spell or ability. I'd like to be able to cast Aethermage's Touch more quickly, but I'm not sure how in these colors. Also to stop getting greedy with Preordain to get better draws, but whiffing a creature with Aethermage's Touch because I didn't ensure the catch with scry.

    I don't really want to buy cards specifically for this deck, so I'll always be on the lookout for big ETB blue and white things I can trade for. Solemn Simulacrum would be the first rotated out, as his effects are good, but his CMC doesn't allow him to be played when needed.

    Question: Let's say I attack with a creature and my opponent responds with Doom Blade. Can I use Sundial of the Infinite's effect to exile all spells on the stack as it ends the turn, saving my creature?
  2. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

  3. Terentius The Instigator

    Baller. I tried to look this question up but found no answer; everyone is concerned with infinite combos with Sundial of the Infinite... though I guess I shouldn't be surprised!
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, I'm just going by logic; since the card says to Exile all spells and abilities on the stack, that would include Doomblade so it doesn't resolve and your creature survives...
  5. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I was at work all day and I need to get ready for even more tomorrow, so I shouldn't even be commenting at all right now, as I'm much too busy. But I'm dropping in anyway to note that Spiderman has it right. Check the Gatherer page for the card to see a bit of exposition about what it means, rules-wise.
  6. Terentius The Instigator

    -4 Solemn Simulacrum - doesn't curve well for this deck
    -1 Clone - I could take it or leave it
    -1 Diluvian Primordial - doesn't hit often enough
    -2 Followed Footsteps - moving to another deck
    -2 Commandeer - this deck doesn't have as much blue

    +2 Perplexing Chimera - This card is fun! Steal something, then steal this back with applicable flicker! Careful when using it on creatures, though. Or just deter opponents from casting certain spells.
    +1 Frost Titan - this guy has been absolutely owning, and often I can hardcast him
    +1 Angel of Serenity - pretty good, and can use the flicker combo Fiend Hunter is known for
    +1 Resolute Archngel
    +2 Turn to Mist - this card has more utility than I realized
    +2 Brainstorm/Ponder - Still deciding which one to use; both are prone to backfiring, but I could use the extra card filtering.
    +1 [some big ETB creature; can't remember]

    Question: What if I cast Aethermage's Touch and I reveal a Theros God? When I put it into play and it isn't a creature, does the "return this creature to its owner's hand" clause of Aethermage's Touch still trigger?
  7. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    For anything that may be something else, these clauses for a particular permanent type read it as if it says, this permanent.
  8. Terentius The Instigator

    Dang. Do you have a reference for that? Not trying to disprove, just for my own edification. Thanks.
  9. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I'm looking at Nylea, God of the Hunt and in the rulings it says
    So if it's not a creature, Aethermage's Touch can't affect it (well, the clause won't trigger).
  10. Terentius The Instigator

    That is... contradictory to the first answer.
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    You mean Mooseman's answer? I'm actually not sure what he said, so hopefully he can explain further.
  12. Terentius The Instigator

    It seems like he indicated that even though the text and Gatherer say "return this creature to its owner's hand", it really means "return this permanent to its owner's hand".

    This may not matter, because I just realized I wouldn't be able to flicker noncreature Ephara anyway!
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    What? That doesn't make sense... I don't think that's what he meant. Let's see what he says when he comes back on...
  14. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Yes, that is exactly what I meant, it was in a judge site or forum I read.
    Can't remember where, but you could just google the two cards and see if an answer comes up.
  15. Terentius The Instigator

    Well I tried, but Aethermage's Touch is old (and considered bad from what I read), and the Theros Gods aren't terribly popular.
  16. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

  17. Terentius The Instigator

    I'll post the relevant part here:

    Q: I cast Æthermage’s Touch, revealing the 4 cards and one of them is Thassa. If I put Thassa into play, what effect does the added text of “at the beginning of your end step, return this creature to its owners hand” have if you are not above the devotion.
    A: This is a little counter-intuitive, in that you would return the Thassa to your hand at the beginning of the next end step. The reasoning is actually simple.
    Many cards have the ability to not be something all the time. This holds true for animated artifacts, lands, among other things. In the event that one of those is that any effect that places an “At end of turn…,” or similar clause for a particular permanent type, most often creature, it instead reads as if it says, this permanent. This covers all of the various scenarios where “this creature,” isn’t necessarily a creature, for whatever reason. The Gods from Theros block, necessitate this for Æthermage’s Touch. Another example is casting Nemesis Trap on an attacking Celestial Colonnade, in which despite it not putting in an animated Colonnade, it will still get exiled at the beginning of the next end step, since that was a condition generated by the effect putting the token onto the battlefield.
  18. Terentius The Instigator

    I see the page says he's a Level 2 Judge, but I don't see how he's correct.

    Firstly, cards make distinctions on these sorts of words. Take Cloudshift for example: "Exile target creature you control, then return that card to the battlefield under your control." The card was designed to be irreverent to things that might change type when they leave play, so using it on man-lands and Gods would work.

    Secondly, the example he cites with Nemesis Trap and Celestial Colonnade doesn't exactly correlate. The effect of Nemesis trap reads: "Exile target attacking creature. Put a token that's a copy of that creature onto the battlefield. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step." This card was designed to make sure the token would be exiled no matter if it was a different type from the object of its copy or not.
  19. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Relavent rule:
    603.7c A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object
    changes characteristics. However, if that object is no longer in the zone it’s expected to be in at
    the time the delayed triggered ability resolves, the ability won’t affect it. (Note that if that object
    left that zone and then returned, it’s a new object and thus won’t be affected. See rule 400.7.)
    An ability that reads “Exile this creature at the beginning of the next end
    step” will exile the permanent even if it’s no longer a creature during the next end step.
    However, it won’t do anything if the permanent
  20. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Huh. Definitely counter-intuitive. I would have thought the delayed trigger would check the characteristics of the object to see if it was a valid target and actually needs to trigger or not. Or maybe that's it, because the wording doesn't specify "target", it still applies?

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