UW Flicker Force

T

Terentius

Guest
This is made up of cards I had lying around from dismantled duel decks and things sitting in my rare binder. It is a counterpart of sorts to that UW control deck I posted, and they share some cards.

Creatures: 15
4x Wall of Omens
2x Perplexing Chimera
3x Frost Titan
2x Angel of Serenity
1x Sunblast Angel
1x Resolute Angel
2x Iona, Shield of Emeria

Instants, sorceries, artifacts, auras: 22
4x Cloudshift
4x Turn to Mist
4x Preordain
2x Brainstorm
3x Mystic Speculation
4x Aethermage's Touch
1x Quicksilver Amulet

Planeswalkers: 2
2x Venser, the Sojourner

Lands: 21
3x Sejiri Refuge
7x Plains
7x Island
4x Arcane Lighthouse
-----------------------------------
60 cards


For those unfamiliar, the main goal is to cast Aethermage's Touch (usually on opponent's turn), land a big creature with an ETB effect, then cheat the return to hand clause with a flicker spell or ability. I'd like to be able to cast Aethermage's Touch more quickly, but I'm not sure how in these colors. Also to stop getting greedy with Preordain to get better draws, but whiffing a creature with Aethermage's Touch because I didn't ensure the catch with scry.

I don't really want to buy cards specifically for this deck, so I'll always be on the lookout for big ETB blue and white things I can trade for. Solemn Simulacrum would be the first rotated out, as his effects are good, but his CMC doesn't allow him to be played when needed.

Question: Let's say I attack with a creature and my opponent responds with Doom Blade. Can I use Sundial of the Infinite's effect to exile all spells on the stack as it ends the turn, saving my creature?
 
T

Terentius

Guest
Baller. I tried to look this question up but found no answer; everyone is concerned with infinite combos with Sundial of the Infinite... though I guess I shouldn't be surprised!
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Well, I'm just going by logic; since the card says to Exile all spells and abilities on the stack, that would include Doomblade so it doesn't resolve and your creature survives...
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
I was at work all day and I need to get ready for even more tomorrow, so I shouldn't even be commenting at all right now, as I'm much too busy. But I'm dropping in anyway to note that Spiderman has it right. Check the Gatherer page for the card to see a bit of exposition about what it means, rules-wise.
 
T

Terentius

Guest
-4 Solemn Simulacrum - doesn't curve well for this deck
-1 Clone - I could take it or leave it
-1 Diluvian Primordial - doesn't hit often enough
-2 Followed Footsteps - moving to another deck
-2 Commandeer - this deck doesn't have as much blue

+2 Perplexing Chimera - This card is fun! Steal something, then steal this back with applicable flicker! Careful when using it on creatures, though. Or just deter opponents from casting certain spells.
+1 Frost Titan - this guy has been absolutely owning, and often I can hardcast him
+1 Angel of Serenity - pretty good, and can use the flicker combo Fiend Hunter is known for
+1 Resolute Archngel
+2 Turn to Mist - this card has more utility than I realized
+2 Brainstorm/Ponder - Still deciding which one to use; both are prone to backfiring, but I could use the extra card filtering.
+1 [some big ETB creature; can't remember]

Question: What if I cast Aethermage's Touch and I reveal a Theros God? When I put it into play and it isn't a creature, does the "return this creature to its owner's hand" clause of Aethermage's Touch still trigger?
 

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
Question: What if I cast Aethermage's Touch and I reveal a Theros God? When I put it into play and it isn't a creature, does the "return this creature to its owner's hand" clause of Aethermage's Touch still trigger?
For anything that may be something else, these clauses for a particular permanent type read it as if it says, this permanent.
 
T

Terentius

Guest
For anything that may be something else, these clauses for a particular permanent type read it as if it says, this permanent.
Dang. Do you have a reference for that? Not trying to disprove, just for my own edification. Thanks.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I'm looking at Nylea, God of the Hunt and in the rulings it says
If a God stops being a creature, it loses the type creature and all creature subtypes. It continues to be a legendary enchantment.
So if it's not a creature, Aethermage's Touch can't affect it (well, the clause won't trigger).
 
T

Terentius

Guest
I'm looking at Nylea, God of the Hunt and in the rulings it says


So if it's not a creature, Aethermage's Touch can't affect it (well, the clause won't trigger).
That is... contradictory to the first answer.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
You mean Mooseman's answer? I'm actually not sure what he said, so hopefully he can explain further.
 
T

Terentius

Guest
It seems like he indicated that even though the text and Gatherer say "return this creature to its owner's hand", it really means "return this permanent to its owner's hand".

This may not matter, because I just realized I wouldn't be able to flicker noncreature Ephara anyway!
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
What? That doesn't make sense... I don't think that's what he meant. Let's see what he says when he comes back on...
 

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
Yes, that is exactly what I meant, it was in a judge site or forum I read.
Can't remember where, but you could just google the two cards and see if an answer comes up.
 
T

Terentius

Guest
Yes, that is exactly what I meant, it was in a judge site or forum I read.
Can't remember where, but you could just google the two cards and see if an answer comes up.
Well I tried, but Aethermage's Touch is old (and considered bad from what I read), and the Theros Gods aren't terribly popular.
 
T

Terentius

Guest
http://thecgrealm.com/wordpress/?p=2953
March 25th, 2014 article
Doesn't cite any rules, but it's what I read.
I'll post the relevant part here:

Q: I cast Æthermage’s Touch, revealing the 4 cards and one of them is Thassa. If I put Thassa into play, what effect does the added text of “at the beginning of your end step, return this creature to its owners hand” have if you are not above the devotion.
A: This is a little counter-intuitive, in that you would return the Thassa to your hand at the beginning of the next end step. The reasoning is actually simple.
Many cards have the ability to not be something all the time. This holds true for animated artifacts, lands, among other things. In the event that one of those is that any effect that places an “At end of turn…,” or similar clause for a particular permanent type, most often creature, it instead reads as if it says, this permanent. This covers all of the various scenarios where “this creature,” isn’t necessarily a creature, for whatever reason. The Gods from Theros block, necessitate this for Æthermage’s Touch. Another example is casting Nemesis Trap on an attacking Celestial Colonnade, in which despite it not putting in an animated Colonnade, it will still get exiled at the beginning of the next end step, since that was a condition generated by the effect putting the token onto the battlefield.
 
T

Terentius

Guest
I see the page says he's a Level 2 Judge, but I don't see how he's correct.

Firstly, cards make distinctions on these sorts of words. Take Cloudshift for example: "Exile target creature you control, then return that card to the battlefield under your control." The card was designed to be irreverent to things that might change type when they leave play, so using it on man-lands and Gods would work.

Secondly, the example he cites with Nemesis Trap and Celestial Colonnade doesn't exactly correlate. The effect of Nemesis trap reads: "Exile target attacking creature. Put a token that's a copy of that creature onto the battlefield. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step." This card was designed to make sure the token would be exiled no matter if it was a different type from the object of its copy or not.
 

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
Relavent rule:
603.7c A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object
changes characteristics. However, if that object is no longer in the zone it’s expected to be in at
the time the delayed triggered ability resolves, the ability won’t affect it. (Note that if that object
left that zone and then returned, it’s a new object and thus won’t be affected. See rule 400.7.)
Example:
An ability that reads “Exile this creature at the beginning of the next end
step” will exile the permanent even if it’s no longer a creature during the next end step.
However, it won’t do anything if the permanent
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Huh. Definitely counter-intuitive. I would have thought the delayed trigger would check the characteristics of the object to see if it was a valid target and actually needs to trigger or not. Or maybe that's it, because the wording doesn't specify "target", it still applies?
 
Top