The art of War

[space ranger]

First off im just your everyday casual player. Don't get to play in to many tournaments. Just wandering what other people think about when their playing in a multiplayer or one on one.

Do you think about the turns ahead,or the next turn?

Can you read the other players by their expressions?

Do you know the next move your opponent should take?

This may be a stupid thread Just want to see magic through the eyes of players better than myself.

 

[Nightstalkers]

I believe strongly in multiplayer three headed, or even chess magic. In todays MTG world there is too much emphasis on just single player and multiplayer straight games to go into too much boringness in today's gaming.


I go into a game knowing which strategies I'm able to play with all of the available moves that are possible for an opponent to make. When card probability shoots out a situation for me to deal with I try to handle it the best I can by planning my now strategy against my opponents x factor. the x being the property of whatever might happen... Murphy's law so to speak.

Most players put on their poker faces while playing and it is always difficult to discern what he or she might be planning. Usually a little leading on by body language by I can help me win a game by about 20%, but there is always the chance my opponent will disregard my bluffs and simply go through with his strategy(s) even when I'm not bluffing about having that 4th Diabolic Edict.

I work with probability and real world idea's, if you wish a discussion about precognition, you should talk to habby. He's been rated a pretty good psychic so far, and has yet to lose a game against me where I haven't had to cheat by completely making my plays random.


No it is not, you might be like I in the fact that you are reluctant to go up against some of the "better" players here. But remember, it doesn't take a really good strategy to make a win, just an slightly inadvertant advantage that completely strips down your opponent. I myself have been beaten on occasion by "newbies" but I do learn from those mystakes by constantly updating my deck playing strategies.



Hey, I dont' really play magic all the time anyways. I mainly play Legend of the 5 Rings, but thats just because of the cynical nature of my decks in that particular game.

—Nightstalker Exterra

 

[Spiderman]

I try to think about the turns ahead and what my responses would be to what my opponent might do, given my cards in hand.

Can't really read my opponents expressions in a tourney setting but then, never really tried to decipher them. In my MP group, play is VERY casual so we trash-talk and moan and groan openly.

I can tell when my opponent should make a play based on the game state, but unless he has 0 cards or I am 99% sure of what he has in his hand, I don't confirm or ask until after the game is over.

In todays MTG world there is too much emphasis on just single player

That's usually because Magic, from the very start, was designed as a one-on-one game and though WOTC has made efforts to include MP and casual in some of their cards, it will never really get away from it because of that fundamental design.

 

[Reverend Love]

Magic is magic...simple. It's a logical serious of events transpiring based off board position, hand content and deck win condition. Players do what they have to for the win. Using what limited resources and knowledge they have at their disposal...the only real mix up involved is if the player can accurately interpret threats from non-threats(board position). Then react accordingly (hand content/win condition). If they can't they lose, simple as that.

Bluffing, is a integral part of all play....in poker . However in magic it has no home. Either you have your threat and play it or you don't..there is no choice. It's directly related to your desire to win or lose. Don't want to win? Well then don't play your threat. Do want to win? Well then play it. The stakes of a magic game are set from the beginning. It does not increase as you play, nor decrease, you can't "cut your losses". Bluffing gains you nothing. You either win or lose.

It's very easy to determine good players from bad players...their turn time. If they draw, look at their card for a second then do something quickly they're probably good. Because they knew what they were going to do this turn at the end of last turn. Very rarely does drawing a new card change this. It's either a better option then what they're were going to exercise or worse. The only time the game slows down is when they have to calculate (add, subtract mana) their resources for a chain of spells. Or setup a motion of events (ex. tutor, play, bounce, untap, bounce play, etc). This is mostly found in combo decks requiring a firm hand in their play (you've got to setup your pieces before winning..and you want to do this as optimally as possible).

 

[Spiderman]

I disagree about the bluffing. It's not an "integral" part of Magic but it's there. Whether it be the common two untapped islands and a card in hand, or an untapped Forest and the possibility of a Giant Growth, it's the unknown. As long as your opponent has cards in his hand and you don't reasonably know what they are and know fast effects are put of his deck, you never know what may happen and play accordingly.

 

[train]

Do you think about the turns ahead,or the next turn?

I think about turns ahead, but usually wait for my draw before deciding anything definitely...

Can you read the other players by their expressions?

Yes, but knowing how to play against the colors they are playing is the best way to play... This way you play the cards/deck, and not an expression you may not read correctly...

Do you know the next move your opponent should take?

Yes - and it usually involves leaving me alone... My decks are very passive(except Sneak), but can be aggressive when provoked...

As for the Bluff/Unknown... That all happens with the next card every player draws, and also involves playing the colors/deck, and not the person...

Of course, there are times when the rules can make a big impact on your play in the game...

 

[Notepad]

Originally posted by space ranger
First off im just your everyday casual player. Don't get to play in to many tournaments. Just wandering what other people think about when their playing in a multiplayer or one on one.

Welcome, dood (sorry, your space ranger name makes me think of Disgaea too much).

I play in both multiplayer and single player. I like big free-for-all chaos games. However, while waiting for a game to start (trades going on, early death, etc) I often play one-on-one and have fun too. A lot of times, if somebody is a pile of dung in the multiplayer games, I rile them up and challenge them to a one-on-one, then pummel them with cheap crap like Affinity of UG Madness. Serves them right!

Do you think about the turns ahead,or the next turn?

I think ahead as many turns as I can, especially in two player. In chaos, its often very hard to plan ahead because things change so much. Often, a good knowledge of others' playstyles, and a grasp of chaos politics will help in predicting a future state to the game.

Can you read the other players by their expressions?

On MTGO, no way. In real life, yeah, in casual. Casual gamers aren't as stonefaced as tourney sharks, I've found. They tend to be a lot more vocal about what their deck is doing. "Ah, now I drew Akroma!"

Do you know the next move your opponent should take?

Ironically, in both fields, you can tell real easy if you know their decks. Tourney is easy because nearly everything is netdecks. MTGO is easy because everything is netdecks. IRL casual though is a lot of theme or "my collection is small" decks. So, oftentimes things are just way too predicatble. It is refreshing to find those rogue decks, though, in either casual or tourneys.

This may be a stupid thread Just want to see magic through the eyes of players better than myself.

Nah, man, ain't stupid at all. Is a nice discussion. I'd hope you would write an article on this. There are lots of different aspects to the game that make great discussions about personal views and experiences.

 

[Nightstalkers]

Don't try to pin anything on me Exterra, I'm clean... in fact, you challenged me again to a game just last night. Heh heh, guess you can't play that game with me because of computer troubles.

No matter, I've still got your number and know how to use that against you.



Is previewwhatzitz really cheating? I think of it as a natural advantage over your opponents.

—Nightstalker Habuki

 

[space ranger]

Space ranger, well that name kinda came up all the suddend when my kid was running through the house saying buzzlight year Space Ranger. what the hell

refer: net decks

Like I said in first post on this thread I don't play in many tournaments but when I do I make people kinda mad,cause i don't play net decks I play with cards you wouldn't find other people playing. I'm the guy who has one card in his deck that can destroy your hole deck. do I do it on purpose? No. Like most other casual players I can't afford to build a 500 dollar deck. Does any body else play this way? I like playing with all my cards and hey why not. If i have 4 of a card I'll run it if I have 1 it goes in to.

In closing is this related to this thread, maybe not. Just something else to talk about. net decks

thoughts?

 

[Nightstalkers]

I prefer to play decks which are both cheezy, and economic.

 

[Reverend Love]

Originally posted by Spiderman
I disagree about the bluffing. It's not an "integral" part of Magic but it's there. Whether it be the common two untapped islands and a card in hand, or an untapped Forest and the possibility of a Giant Growth, it's the unknown. As long as your opponent has cards in his hand and you don't reasonably know what they are and know fast effects are put of his deck, you never know what may happen and play accordingly.

Can't say I agree with you. If your opponent does have two untapped Islands that still shouldn't modify overall how you play. If the resources are available then yes try and draw it out, then follow with the real threat(granted that a slight modification of play). If the option of attempting to sucker out the counterspell isn't available, you still have to play your threat card. Holding on to cards because of what our opponent might do, is horrible playing...even for us casual players.


space ranger

Like I said in first post on this thread I don't play in many tournaments but when I do I make people kinda mad,cause i don't play net decks I play with cards you wouldn't find other people playing. I'm the guy who has one card in his deck that can destroy your hole deck. do I do it on purpose? No. Like most other casual players I can't afford to build a 500 dollar deck. Does any body else play this way? I like playing with all my cards and hey why not. If i have 4 of a card I'll run it if I have 1 it goes in to.

Your a frustrating player due to your lack of focused deck building. Since you don't have a huge collection to work with you make due. This probably causes you to add cards which have no connection (or synergy as commonly referred to) with one another. I'm guessing often times you find a card which appeals to you, fits your deck's color so you add it. Doesn't really serve any other purpose then it's the right color and you sorta like it. This one card probably completely hoses someone else’s ENTIRE deck's theme and win condition. That's frustrating because like you said you didn't plan for it to fufill that particular function and it's perceived as completely random luck. This is hellaciously frustrating for those of us who:

A: Drop lots of money on our addiction
B: Spend lots of time creating our decks
C: Love to see their decks work the way we planned

Then you come along and F it all up...and even worse ON ACCIDENT!

Sorta like the kid who just pounded buttons on Street Fighter or Tekken. Kid just pounded away at those buttons with utter random abandon....and he was hard. He had no strategy and thus no apparent weaknesses or patterns.

That's alright though. Magic needs players like you to bring us Johnnys into line...after all Spikes rip our ideas off so it's up to you guys to Quash'm.

 

[space ranger]

rev. where is the love?

That might make people mad playing like that. Oh wait how about I sell everything and decrease the amount of players already that stoped playing cause they can't afford it,Or could it be that that 20 dollar deck beat the top net deck. Then your high dollar deck will be just that. I think I'm focused on my deck building. I just don't like playing follow the leader and playing everything every one else is playing. where's the fun in that .


Yeah the game does need more guys like me. Nothing like beating someone who has come along way on his deck and your one random card messed it up. Thats what makes the game fun. I like to win like the next guy,but i'm not a sore looser. Cards were printed to be played. why not play them

 

[Notepad]

Originally posted by Nightstalkers
I prefer to play decks which are both cheezy, and economic.

NS, how right you are! UG Madness can be built for about $20 or less if you can do your trades right. Even cheaper online if you're savvy. Still working on it since the cards are no longer standard legal and thus not in everyone's trade binder...

Certain builds of Affinity (like Sarnia Affinity) can be built for around $30-40. Less if you know what you're doing in the trade market. Mine has cost me $20 for precons and then a little bit of trading.

I hear monoblack control is a great and cheap-ish deck that can win easy in Type I.

Always nice to have these things around to stomp jerks when they ruin your gaming group's experience.

 

[Spiderman]

Revered Love:

If the resources are available then yes try and draw it out, then follow with the real threat(granted that a slight modification of play).

That's what I'm talking about, the blue player has "bluffed" you into holding onto whatever real threat you have until you have a decoy threat to put out. If you don't have the threat hanging over you, you'd be casting spells right when you draw them (if they fit your game plan, obviously). With a blue player, you have to think more and try to plan to cast at least two spells a turn so hopefully one gets through. And that's the "bluff".

Net decks are fine - they're just the "popular" deck. You can use one and ease your deckbuilding skills and concentrate on your playing skills, or use the knowledge of the ones out there to build your own "rogue" deck to beat them all (I mean, it's basically advanced intelligence on what decks people might be playing).

Beating an expensive deck with a cheap one is also part of the game; that's what makes Magic different from a lot of other CCGs where the rares dominate. In Magic, commons and uncommons have a good chance of beating a rare deck.

 

[Notepad]

Netdecks are also considered highly lame, which makes them great for pounding a-holes with. Nothing like making somebody eat crow pie with UG Madness after they acted all hotshot during a chaos game.

Budget netdecks, like Madness, Affinity, or MBC are wonderful in that not only are they netdecks, but common ones, too. That crow gets even more bitter. Mmmm! Pass the salt along to the victim!

 

[train]

Search for my Pimp of Worlds deck and it was a non-rare deck entirely...

Better Yet - here it is again, though it needs a little tweaking in that Anger needs a mountain...

4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Gaea's Blessings
1x Tormod's crypt
3x Diabolic edict
3x Invulnerability
3x Disenchant
1x Enlightened Tutor
3x Abyssal Gatekeeper
3x Humble
3x Broodhatch Nantuko
2x Temper
3x Waylay
1x Anger
1x Worldly Tutor
2x Creeping mold
1x Centaur glade
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Pulse of Llanowar
1x Sleight of Mind
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Fanning the Flames

2x Rith's grove
2x Darigaaz's caldera
1x Diamond Valley
1x Library of Alexandria
2x Nantuko Monastery
4x Plains
4x Forest
2x Swamps

Sideboard:
2x Multani's Presence
2x choke
2x compost
2x Splinter
2x lifeforce
2x roots of life
1x Sowing Salt
1x Boil
1x Arcane Laboratory

 

[Reverend Love]

Spiderman

Ah, ah, ah...not so fast there Spidey...I do remember following up that statement with:

If the option of attempting to sucker out the counterspell isn't available, you still have to play your threat card.

Meaning, if the current situation allows for the attempt to draw out a possible counter take..if not proceed as planned. Regardless of your spell possibly being countered or not. Like I said earlier you can't sit there holding cards due to what your opponent might do. It's just bad playing.



space ranger

You remind me of a friend I had who had the uncanny knack of destroying my decks out of sheer blind luck.

Like this one time I was playing with a graveyard intensive style deck:

Altar of Dementia, sac my creatures to grind myself, play Living Death, sac Anger to Husk (it was a zombie deck) swing for the win...thing works great...unless I'm playing Leaf (his nickname).

Leaf had this monoblack deck which was ok..but just for cahoots he threw one..and only one Planar Void in his deck...which reads:

Whenever a card is put into a graveyard, remove that card from the game.

No tutoring so he couldn't get it when needed, no extra card drawing, nothing. And I swear to god almighty he'd slap that thing down 2nd turn..EVERYGAME!

ANOTHER time we're playing 7 Player chaos. I'm holding a Blatant Thievery which costs 7(beautiful multiplayer card by the way):

For each opponent, gain control of target permanent that player controls. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)

I've got 6 land on the table and another (island I think) in my hand. Everyone has some serious stuff on the board, Akroma, Verdnant Force, Maze of Ith...it was going to work out beautifully. Two turns before it comes to me Leaf castes Armageddon.......ARMA F-en GEDDON! Which by the way he only played one of and for reasons uknown, even to him.

I was soo pissed and the thing is HE ALWAYS did this sorta stuff to people (he moved so we're safe).

...I think if he'd had stayed I'd have had an aneurism by now.

 

[Spiderman]

Depending on what your own deck is supposed to be doing, in general I think blindly casting your spells just because you can against a counterspell deck is bad playing. Obviously if you're playing a fast WW/Sligh/Stompy whatever deck, you probably should be doing that because you need to kill your opponent fast, but for a lot of other deck types, you're just playing into your opponent's hand by doing that.

 

[space ranger]

I just try to play the best I can (with the cards I own). I'm always looking for the other player to miss a key mistake,where they could have won the game,but they were thinking about a play ahead and not realizing they could have won the game on the turn before. Then hopefully I have a way to get rid of the threat before one realizes it cost them the game. That always is a fun way to win. Then the other player gets mad at a mistake he makes then from a random card I might throw out

 

[mythosx]

All this talk about bluff and drawing and leading and what not only applies to multiplayer. It seems like head to head games can easily be played by two computers who can be pre programmed to react to things with the tools you give them. In duels if you play to the best of your ability you eventually become a slave to logic. Thats no fun. I guess thats why we all love casual play.

Speaking of dumb luck. I have had to do that one time in a game of magic. I was playing some clever newbies which were friends of mine. The discovered I would try to do certain things with my decks. And they would remember when to hold certain answers to those questions. So after a while i got pissed that i couldn't swap cards cuz I only had one deck on me at the time. I just decided to play my deck randomly. For example I would only look at my first seven cards. when ever I drew a card I would play it if i could. If not stick it in my hand. Regardless of bad or good. Actually won. Dunno how...