Tezzerret the Seeker: Broken?

Discussion in 'Single Card Strategies' started by BigBlue, Oct 3, 2008.

  1. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    That is Yu Gi Oh in a nutshell..... I never did become a judge for that game for those very reasons...... I just run the events.....

    I have to agree to let the cards do what they say and ban the broken ones. They can always make a new card that is like the errata'd ones, if they really want that card.
  2. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Yep. But two-card combos can work in Vintage. Painter's Grindstone is an example. It costs 3 to get both cards out and 3 more to activate the Grindstone. One of the cards is useless without the other (Grindstone is pretty pointless in the deck), while one of them has synergy with other cards in the deck (Red Elemental Blast and such). It also won't kill if the opponent has Gaea's Blessing anywhere in his library.

    Time Vault/Voltaic Key is 3 mana to get both cards out and 1 more to activate the Key. One card is very powerful against certain decks (but you have to know when it's a good time to skip a turn) and has synergy with anything else that can untap an artifact. The other combos with mana-producing artifacts and such. And once you do start taking turns with both cards out, you basically win in any realistic scenario.

    So while you need to get both combo pieces to win, I'm convinced that this is the most powerful combo of that variety. The DCI must have had similar concerns, since they restricted Time Vault before the Oracle update took place.

    Tezzerret, on the other hand, isn't a combo at all. It would fetch Time Vault and untap Time Vault all by itself. But it's slower and more expensive. I'm interested to see how well it does.
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Is Painter's Grindstone restricted though? I haven't checked...

    And does it appear enough that opponents put in Gaea's Blessing? Or does every green Vintage deck pack it just in case?

    I'm not saying it isn't powerful. But having a two card combo whose pieces are on the restricted list vs those that aren't are two different animals (although, is the Key on the List?)
  4. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Neither Painter's Servant nor Grindstone have ever been restricted. Voltaic Key used to be restricted, but no longer is (won't matter with Time Vault's return to its old status because Time Vault is now restricted and it was clearly the broken culprit between those two).
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, I'd be interested in seeing how it affects the Vintage scene. Maybe 13NoVa can tell us if he gives us an update on his next Vintage tourney progress.
  6. 13NoVa The Ruins That We Hold

    It's funny, because the guy is definitely broken as hell (Look up M.Solymossy on The Mana Drain and you'll see a report in which I top8ed) But he's also one of the worst cards in the deck. He definitely is vintage playable, though.
  7. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    You're talking about Tezzerret, right? What about the Time Vault/Voltaic Key combo? Any appearances on that?
  8. Oversoul The Tentacled One

  9. 13NoVa The Ruins That We Hold

    Yes, Oversoul that's my list.

    More often than not, you just set up key+Vault combo, but tezzeret is still silly when he resolves, because he is a 1 card combo, whereas key + vault is a 2.

    I also used tezzeret's ultimate versus Null rod, and bashed for 35.
  10. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    Speaking of planeswalkers. Is it me or does it seem like Khamal was the protoform planeswalker card and it was his card that lead to the creation of the planeswalkers.
  11. Budget Player Cadet Where in the world is BPC

    I don't think he's overpowered in vintage; you could generally get a better combo out with less mana. I doubt he'll see play in affinity, to be honest; he's just too slow for that. But I could be wrong. I don't watch the tourney scene. I like Elspeth better.
  12. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I don't understand this post. Could you elaborate? Do you seriously think that Elspeth is better in Vintage than Tezzeret? And what's this about Affinity? Tezzeret is already the centerpiece of its own control deck? Why are you trying to fit it into some other, worse deck?
  13. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    I've had a chance to take a good look at Tezzerret. He is very powerful in his decks, however, I don't think that he is broken. I have to agree with oversoul. Elspeth is way stronger than Tezzerret. She can actually win games on her own with out any other cards in play.
  14. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Is this some big prank on me? If so, it's a good one and I applaud whoever came up with it...

    I didn't say Elspeth is way stronger than Tezzeret. I asked BPC what in the world he was talking about. Tezzeret is a vital part of a top-tier control deck in Vintage.

    People do realize that this is Vintage and not some other format, right? Vintage, the format where Tezzeret is good and Elspeth is not used at all. Not Legacy, not Extended, not Standard, not Lorwyn Block Constructed. Vintage. The format with the now broken Time Vault.

    If you mean that Elspeth is better in Legacy, I fully agree. But in Vintage, it's quite the opposite. Tezzeret has access to restricted artifacts (and Time Vault in particular), making him incredible.
  15. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Since you've been looking at your cards, have you been looking at Vintage results lately? 13NoVa seemed to say a couple of months ago that the Vault combo hadn't been making strong appearances, but maybe things have changed since then?
  16. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    Sorry I misunderstood and mis quoted you Oversoul.

    Spiderman - I haven't taken a look at the vintage scene as of late. I live near Superstars/Big Fireball and they have a monthly vintage mox tourney. From just the buzz I haven't heard too much about Tezzerret. There are so many powerful cards in vintage that end the game before Tezzerret has enough time to do his thing. If you really needed to get Timevault I'm almost certain there are faster and cheaper ways of going about it than Tezzerret.
  17. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Actually, my reply was more to Oversoul and his comment about Vintage being the "format with the now broken Vault" :)
  18. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    You mean the combo with Key? All the Tezzeret decklists I've looked at are still using at least one Key, but it's I guess more like a contingency or for when you've already got Vault out. Or do you mean the Tezzeret deck itself as a combo?

    I don't consider it to be a combo because Tezzeret does everything by himself. You fetch Vault with Tezzeret, so you don't need it in your hand or anything. You untap it with Tezzeret. You fetch Key and your army of other artifacts with Tezzeret, then after taking some large number of turns, you win with Tezzeret. It's all Tezzeret, Tezzeret, Tezzeret. That's not a "combo" when you only need one card to be in your hand or in play. There are plenty of genuine combo decks that use several cards, but we don't say Legacy's Aluren deck requires a six-card combo because just playing the Aluren and Imperial Recruiter fetches the rest from your library. Same thing with Vintage's (now defunct) Hulk Flash. It's a two-card combo, but it is pulling four more cards from your library to get the kill. Wow, digression. Anyway, Tezzeret also doesn't usually play like a combo deck. It plays more like a control deck.

    Okay, I totally got off-track there. When did 13NoVa say that Tezzeret hadn't been making strong appearances? It's certainly not dominating, but, like he said in this thread (post #26), it's definitely playable in Vintage.

    And yes, I've been following Vintage more and I actually do think Tezzeret is an archetype that's waning a bit. Still makes more appearances than anything with Elspeth. :rolleyes:
  19. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I meant the Vault combo in general, with or without Tezzeret :)

    He didn't say that Tezzeret wasn't making strong appearances, but again, I just meant the Vault-Key combo, not Tezzeret.

    Although perhaps I misunderstood your comment since you keep mentioning Tezzeret - did you mean the "now broken Vault" *with* Tezzeret? I thought you meant stand-alone...
  20. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Oh, I see. Yeah, I think all of the successful decks Time Vault's been making appearances in have been Tezzeret decks.

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