Super Bowl

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Apollo

Guest
I was interested in seeing what comments that mindless rant would provoke...:)

I did warn you all.

Ray Lewis:
Fuzzy--he may be the defensive MVP, but I'd say his less admirable qualities more than make up for it. He's a great defensive player, but he ought to be in jail, IMHO.
Spidey--technically, he didn't "stand" party to it as I said. But even if he was in the limo (and I certainly can't say otherwise), he still knew about it. And that makes him a party to it in my book. If you know about a murder and don't report it cause it's your buddies, you ought to be thrown in jail with them.

Modell:
Fuzzy: the fact that he moved to Baltimore didn't send him to the Super Bowl. It also didn't get him out of financial trouble. He still had to be entirely bailed out by one of the minority owners, and will lose ownership of the team in a few years. As I understand it, the fans in Cleveland bought just as many tickets as the fans in Baltimore do. So the move didn't do squat for him.
Spidey: I certainly agree that Baltimore should have had football from the beginning. I think that a setup such as in Green Bay, where the fans own the team would be best (it will never move). I don't think that a city that loses a team should get one back by screwing another city. I would not have wanted to get a team in Cleveland by stealing the Bills, as was speculated in the beginning.

Cheap shots: sportscasters have said that both hits will almost certainly result in fines when the league reviews them. Tony Siragusa, in particular, knocked down Gannon and then raised his arm as he fell so that the elbow hit him square in the chest. Last I heard, Gannon may have a broken collarbone. Honestly, it did look like a move out of the WWF. As for the shot by Sam Adams to Steve Mcnair, he led with his helmet, which is supposed to be a penalty, and which will most likely warrant a fine.

Billick: what makes me mad about him is two things: first, the people that talk about what a great job he does. Frankly, he didn't do anything. He works with the offense, while Marvin Lewis handles the defense. And we all know how good their offense is... Billick is getting credit that rightly belongs to Lewis, when he hasn't done anything. The second thing that makes me mad is the way he spouted off about how the Titans didn't try, and how they assumed they would win. That's a blatant, disrespectful slap in the face to the Titans. I never claimed I could do a better job than him; I just meant that he was getting lots of undeserved hype, and I'm sick of hearing it.

The Ravens have the best record because they've played more than anyone else. The Giants would also have the best record, except they performed during the regular season, so they didn't have to play that extra game.

The matchup comment meant that this was going to be one boring game, only it didn't come out that way.

Frankly, the Ravens beating the Titans was a fluke. The Titans completely dominated the game. They led every single category, and even ran against the vaunted Ravens defense. The Ravens won because Al Del Greco suddenly froze and because of two pure luck plays. Fuzzy, you can't argue that the blocked kick return and Ray Lewis's interception were anything except random chance.

And Spidey, if you dug hard enough, you probably could find dirt on the Giants. Especially if the latest rumor about them decoding and stealing plays that are relayed to the quarterbacks of the opposing teams is true (which I doubt; how would they let the defense know before the play starts, anyway?). And their quarterback used to be a heavy drinker, who really messed himself up. But he's completely cleaned himself up, and as far as I know, nobody on the Giants has been involved in a murder.;)

Maybe the Ravens will win the Super Bowl. If the Giants are smart, though, they'll win easily. All they have to do is run the ball every play (without Tiki Barber) and make sure not to turn the ball over. You know Baltimore will never score, and eventually Dilfer will give you a gift turnover or safety and you can kick a field goal and win.:)
 
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Apollo

Guest
Ah. I just heard on Sportscenter that both players were fined by the NFL for their cheap shots on the quarterbacks. And it was Ray Lewis that hit Mcnair, not Sam Adams; my apologies for that mix-up.
 

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
:rolleyes:

I think we're all smart enough to have figured out that it was worth the fines to win those 2 football games. And I agree completely with Apollo, that on moral terms, the Ravens are the pits...

On the other hand, I really hate New York, and while the Giants don't seem like such a bad team I still refuse to root for a New York team for anything.

I think I'll just sit this one out. Maybe I can take my eldest to a Pokemon game or something...:rolleyes:
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Ray Lewis:
Spidey--technically, he didn't "stand" party to it as I said. But even if he was in the limo (and I certainly can't say otherwise), he still knew about it. And that makes him a party to it in my book. If you know about a murder and don't report it cause it's your buddies, you ought to be thrown in jail with them.
It sounds like we're in agreement here. All I was saying is that *maybe* there's more to the story than we know (like maybe his friends DIDN'T tell Lewis what they did; he might have just assumed the blood was theirs, whatever).

Modell:
Spidey: I certainly agree that Baltimore should have had football from the beginning. I think that a setup such as in Green Bay, where the fans own the team would be best (it will never move). I don't think that a city that loses a team should get one back by screwing another city. I would not have wanted to get a team in Cleveland by stealing the Bills, as was speculated in the beginning.
I'm not sure Baltimore truly "screwed" Cleveland over. I mean, what does "screwed over" mean? From what I know (which admittedly is not much), being in Cleveland was not financially prudent after 30+ years or whatever and Baltimore offered the best deal. Now, I don't agree with Maryland taxpayers footing the bill for the stadium and all (I mean, after the name rights deal with PSINet, MD should be getting a lot of it back, I think). As I've said before, I don't know the full story behind the reasons and motives.

Cheap shots: sportscasters have said that both hits will almost certainly result in fines when the league reviews them. Tony Siragusa, in particular, knocked down Gannon and then raised his arm as he fell so that the elbow hit him square in the chest. Last I heard, Gannon may have a broken collarbone. Honestly, it did look like a move out of the WWF. As for the shot by Sam Adams to Steve Mcnair, he led with his helmet, which is supposed to be a penalty, and which will most likely warrant a fine.
I haven't seen any analysis in-depth reviews so if they WERE cheap shots, fine 'em.

Side-rant: They should be upping the fines or tying them into the payroll of the player or something. I mean, $7500 fine from someone who makes X MILLION? Come on, that's a day's interest...

End Side-rant.

Billick: what makes me mad about him is two things: first, the people that talk about what a great job he does. Frankly, he didn't do anything. He works with the offense, while Marvin Lewis handles the defense. And we all know how good their offense is... Billick is getting credit that rightly belongs to Lewis, when he hasn't done anything. The second thing that makes me mad is the way he spouted off about how the Titans didn't try, and how they assumed they would win. That's a blatant, disrespectful slap in the face to the Titans. I never claimed I could do a better job than him; I just meant that he was getting lots of undeserved hype, and I'm sick of hearing it.
Again, don't know really what Billick does, but as head coach I assume he does more than work with the offense. That may be his specialty but I'm sure he does more with ALL units. And I haven't really seen much OVERLY praise of Billick like you say, at least here in the Baltimore Sun paper which is the hometown paper. I also haven't seen the quote about the Titans so I can't comment on that.

The Ravens have the best record because they've played more than anyone else. The Giants would also have the best record, except they performed during the regular season, so they didn't have to play that extra game.
No slam, just a comment that the team's record is only one yardstick. There's plenty of other statistics (offensive, defensive, record of teams played, etc) that combined truly measure the team's worth.

[quoteAnd Spidey, if you dug hard enough, you probably could find dirt on the Giants. Especially if the latest rumor about them decoding and stealing plays that are relayed to the quarterbacks of the opposing teams is true (which I doubt; how would they let the defense know before the play starts, anyway?). And their quarterback used to be a heavy drinker, who really messed himself up. But he's completely cleaned himself up, and as far as I know, nobody on the Giants has been involved in a murder. [/quote]

Funny thing about that stealing plays rumor... there was a blurb about it in the Sports section on iwon.com and one of the team's front office said "That's bull-hocky (um, not the exact words but you get my drift) and you can print that if you can". And iwon did! Language and all... don't know how it is in the papers, haven't got that far yet.

Maybe the Ravens will win the Super Bowl. If the Giants are smart, though, they'll win easily. All they have to do is run the ball every play (without Tiki Barber) and make sure not to turn the ball over. You know Baltimore will never score, and eventually Dilfer will give you a gift turnover or safety and you can kick a field goal and win
<chuckle> Run the ball? I'm sure that's in the game plan but that's what the Titans tried with their No. 1 rushing offense and look how far they got... :)
 
A

Apollo

Guest
I know Baltimore didn't screw Cleveland over. I just meant that Cleveland got screwed in general. Basically, Modell got himself into money troubles. Attendance in Cleveland was still great, but he was desperate, so he moved to Baltimore, which was offering him a lot of money. It was rather mercenary-like. Baltimore offered him some ridiculous amount of money, so he left the city that was loyal to him all those years. Then, he managed to squander that money away, too, and had to sell his controlling interest in the team. So the move didn't bail him out of debt anyway.

As for my running strategy, the Titans didn't have the #1 running offense. And they had a good day running the ball anyway. Eddie George ran for about 100 yards, a good day for any running back. It was the passing and special teams that killed the Titans.

But anyway, that wasn't my point. I said that they should run to protect the ball, not move the ball. If you're running, you don't give up interceptions or quarterback fumbles. I believe something like 75 or more percent of turnovers come on passing plays. As long as you don't give the Ravens the ball on your 20 yard line, they'll never score (except for that flukey pass last week).

As I see it, the mistake of the Raiders was trying to open up the game by throwing. They went out and ran the ball about 15 times with the the best running offense in the league. They tried to throw the ball on every play and ended up throwing three interceptions that set up two of the Ravens' scores.

If you play conservative, and don't turn the ball over, you can't lose to the Ravens with a good defense. Eventually, Dilfer will give you a gift interception and you can kick a field goal.

Records: I agree that the record isn't everything. I was just responding to Fuzzy's comment about the Ravens having the best record.

Billick: you say he isn't getting much press in Baltimore?! I live in Cleveland for cripes sake, and all I see in the papers is what a great coach he is. That's really strange...

Side rant: definately. I saw Siragusa comment on it, and he complained about the fine because he had to put his kid through an expensive private school and said that was costing him enough.

TomB: I completely agree. As a Clevelander, the only thing that tops my hatred of New York is my hatred of the Ravens.:)

CT: Huh?
 
T

TURD CUTTER!!!

Guest
fuzzy-remember to bring my dollar in to school when my new yowk giants cream your baltimoron ravens.

about the record. the titans had the best record in the league (13-3). if you include the postseason, then yes, the ravens do have 15-4, but the titans had the best regular season record

Siragusa deserves to pay every penny that he has to pay. i know that the league can't do this, but the coach should be fined, too. it looked to me like Siragusa was sent out for the purpose of injuring rich gannon, which the coach probly told him to do.

ray lewis is an ***hole. :D
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Was it the Raiders who had the #1 running offense then? Dang it, it was one of them!

Anyway, if it was the Raiders, then that's why they went to the passing game: because the Ravens were stopping them on the run. And I don't know about that turnover number, but you can easily fumble the ball as much as being intercepted (and if you do it for the majority of your offensive plays, then the chance increases).

Maybe Billick is getting more press in Baltimore but I haven't seen in in the Sun. They usually write about different aspects of the team or players each day (you can probably log on and check their website http://www.sunspot.com and see for yourself; maybe you'll find more :))
 
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Apollo

Guest
I was being sorta facetious with the running remark; obviously you couldn't use a strategy that extreme.

However, the Raiders didn't give the run a real shot. They only gave it to their star running back, Tyrone Wheatley, 12 times. And it's not like htey were ever very far behind, so they didn't have to get away from the run.

As for the turnovers, there are about an equal number of fumbles as interceptions, but most fumbles happen on passing plays too; the quarterback gets blindsided and loses the ball, or a reciever catches the pass and gets hit shortly after gaining possession.

Even today, there was a column in the Plain Dealer mentioning what a great coach Billick is, and how the Browns could be in the same spot the Ravens are, if only he was their coach.:rolleyes:
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Well, I'm reading a little more about Billick...

So despite the hype, do you think he's a good head coach or not?
 
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Apollo

Guest
Well, I'm sure he's not horrible. If he was a bad coach, they wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the Super Bowl. Of course, I understand he was brought in to vitalize the offense, and he's failed miserably at that (I know I've said that 20 times). In my opinion, he's just kind of keeping things moving, not making mistakes. And making incredibly dumb comments to the media, of course.

I think the real credit should go to Ozzie Newsome and Marvin Lewis (boy, those Ravens have a lot of guys named Lewis, don't they?).
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Well, I think you're underestimating his "offensive genius" (for lack of a better term). Sure it was five games but on the whole it was more of an aberration (when was the last time that stretch happened in the NFL? early 90's? and who knows the coach then?) and as I said before, it's up to the players to actually execute the plays. In my mind's eye, for some reason they just weren't able to do it.
 
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Apollo

Guest
It wasn't just that, though... their offense has been, well, offensive most of the season.:) But like you said, though, we can agree to disagree.

There was a quote I heard today, from Ray Lewis, that I'd like to share:

If taking players out if the way I play, it's my passion. Some little fines won't try to stop me from going after those guys [quarterbacks].
And one from Siragusa, the other guy that was fined:

Hey, I'm going to knock guys out of the game. I wanted to go the Super Bowl. If it means I have to pay some fine, who cares? I'll still try to knock them out. I might not give up my kid for it, but I'd have to think about it.
Some great character on that team, eh?:)
 
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rkoelsch

Guest
as football is my other passion. Being a long time Raiders fan, I am a little upset with how the game turned out. But I can't fault the Ravens team for aggressive defense when the Raiders had done the same thing several times. The Ravens have been able to capitalize other teams mistakes and not make many of their own. And Trent Dilfer has really matured in his ball handling ability.

My prediction is that this will probably be a touchdownless Superbowl decided by field goals. If I can't find something else to watch on TV there is the Prerelease going on this weekend. Better time spent there than watching 2 teams with no offense beat each other up.
 
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Apollo

Guest
Agree with who? Anyway, maybe they were unnecessary, but they were some of the dumbest stuff I've ever heard. The game is not about blatantly going out there and trying to injure the other team's quarterback.

Moving on, that was one of the worst-played and worst-coached Super Bowls I've ever seen. There were about 10 points that weren't scored because of bungles by the other team. I guess my no-passing theory was correct, as the Giants threw it time after time, even early in the game, and threw 4 picks (and 4 more were dropped by Ravens players). I believe Collins also fumbled twice on passing plays, but the Giants were lucky enough to recover them. Fassel had them punt to Jermaine Lewis from their own end zone, despite the fact that his punter is a poor punter who gets little hight on his punts. This set up an easy big return. The obvious move was to have him kick it out and just be content to stuff the Ravens.

And it looked like Jason Sehorn had a nice night on the town the day before, because he was burned time after time.

I do have to give Billick a little credit for that game. After almost blowing it in the first half by airing it out(if it wasn't for a penalty that is never called, the Giants would have had that big interception return and probably won the game), he finally wised up and handed it off for all but 8 plays of the second half. HE GOT THE IDEA! DON'T LET TRENT DILFER THROW IT!

Summing up the Ravens' scores:

-Lousy punt and blown coverage by Sehorn. (7-0)
-Nice pass and catch setting up field goal(a real score! 10-0)
-Interception return (stop throwing! 17-0)
-Return of a lousy kick, which included a block in the back (24-7)
-38 yard drive after another Giant bungle (31-7)
-an 18 yard drive after the Giants stink it up again (34-7)

I wouldn't say that the Ravens were the best team on the field last night. They just weren't the worst.
 
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Zhaneel

Guest
I was hoping the Ravens would win, since the Giants have beat the Eagles in the last few games, and they're getting annoying. Personally, I don't care.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I thought I was agreeing with you, Apollo, about the quotes. I got the impression from your post that they were uncalled for :confused:

Anyway, I only watched the second half of the game, so I can't speak for all of it, but I find it rather interesting? amusing? how someone could put their spin on it. You make it out like the Giants had a really bad day (and who know, maybe they did) and the Ravens, being the mediocre team they are, just squeaked by, while another person (not necessarily me since I didn't watch all of it) could say the Ravens did a superb job against the Giants, whether they had a bad day or not offensively or defensively, and just outplayed them, but good team vs good team rather than bad team vs bad day team. It's just interesting...
 
T

TURD CUTTER!!!

Guest
Personally, i thought that it was a horrible fluke of a game. the ravens won by doing what they have been doing all season long - playing dirty. it probly didn't make a difference, but that last touchdown was not a touchdown.

as for commercials, they were mediocre(is that how you spell it?). my favorites were the bob dole pepsi one, the doritos one on the tennis court, the "What are you doing?!!!" one, and the one with the aliens all going "Waaasaaaap!" all of the "cingular" commercials stunk, and they had a lot of them.

this has nothing to do with the super bowl, but survivor 2 really, really sucked
 
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