Snow and More Snow

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Spiderman, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Man, we just got a light dusting last night, maybe 3-4 inches, and everything was around two hours late today, including work (which is surprising, because that rarely happens). Now there's another bigger storm coming this weekend and estimates range in the two feet mark.

    Quite a different winter from recent past ones when we hardly got any snow :)
  2. EricBess Active Member

    Must be all that global warming...
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Which, the lack of snow or all of it coming this winter? :)
  4. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Sarcasm, EB? Over here, we haven't had any snow at all this year (we did get a little bit in early December I think). But that's not because of global warming. There has always been regional variation. Global warming is based on the mean global surface temperature, which really has been going up somewhat. And there's no arguing with thermometers, regardless of what any of us thinks about anthropogenic global warming. Just saying...

    Great, now this thread reminds me of my dad. Every time the weather was cold he would (and might still) say, "IT'S GLOBAL WARMING!" :rolleyes:
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Actually, I understood global warming to mean more severe extremes in temperatures per the season, not that everything was getting "warmer" in general...
  6. turgy22 Nothing Special

    I hate to get off topic, but what is this supposed to mean? Do you not believe in global warming because it's cold outside and we're getting a fair amount of snow in the northeast US? If so, that's just about the stupidest thing I can think of to refute global warming.

    It pains me to realize that global warming has gradually devolved into a political issue. Certain right-wing politicians and entertainers, for whatever reason, seem to think that solving environmental problems is something only "liberals" care about, as if ensuring the sustained livability of the planet is some sort of idea for wackos.

    Now, I'm not that liberal and I don't particularly care that much about the environment, but scientific data shows that the temperature of the Earth has steadily risen about 0.8ÂșC over the past 100 years. Is this temperature rise caused by man-made phenomena? I don't know, but it's still something that's happening.

    So why do so many people keep acting like global warming is some total sham? And why do those same people think that a global temperature rise of about 0.8 degrees over 100 years is suddenly going to mean that it doesn't snow in the winter anymore?

    Sorry for the rant, but this is just something I find extremely frustrating. Instead of saying, "hey, let's try to solve this," or at least, "hey, let's try to learn more about this," some people just want to remain intentionally ignorant and make snide remarks.
  7. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Probably because it's happening too gradual for people to really notice. 0.8C over 100 years is over many people's lifetimes and there's too many ups and downs during their lifetimes to see it.
  8. EricBess Active Member

    Sorry, it was an attempt at humor and wasn't meant to spark a political debate.

    I'm all for taking care of the planet, but I also think the whole "global warming" is a man-made crisis. Yes, there is evidence that the temperature has risen, but there is no unrefuted evidence that this isn't just a normal cycle that has happened before and will happen again as oposed to something we caused.

    The main problem I have with Global Warming is that the people who "raised the alarm" are the same people who are in a position to capitalize and make a ton of money if laws are passed to "solve the problem". Nothing gives a polician more control than a good crisis and there is enough counter-evidence to think that there may be some dog-wagging going on.

    And I guess I'm a bit cynical also being old enough to remember when we were worried about "the next ice age" less than 30 years ago.
  9. turgy22 Nothing Special

    Fair enough. I don't doubt that a lot of global warming alarmists are probably taking such a stance to further their own careers and make money. And anyone who thinks we're going to have a "Day After Tomorrow" type situation any time soon (as in, within any current living person's lifetime) is just as stupid as those who equate cold temperatures to evidence against global warming.

    It's just that this is the third time I've been on a message board that someone brought up the weather and another person chimed in with some sort of "take that, global warming people!" comment, as if that has anything to do with anything. Usually, it just tells me that the person has no idea what global warming means or they're just desperate for some reason to be right about a topic that isn't even relevant to the conversation.

    So, I guess my problem isn't so much with not believing that global warming isn't a crisis (since I don't really believe it is, either), but why inject it into random conversations like that?
  10. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

  11. EricBess Active Member

    turgy, the reason I joke about it is because I've heard people actual being serious when they say that things equally rediculous are caused by global warming.

    So it's more a satirical comment on how many things get blamed on global warming than a direct attack on global warming itself.
  12. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    *Ransac trudges his way through the Lake Effect snow of Cleveland.*

    I'm sorry. I didn't hear that. Sounds like you were complaining about snow. Must've been about 2 feet or more. No other reason to complain from where I stand.

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  13. turgy22 Nothing Special

    Ah... so it's a pre-emptive rebuttal to this summer when someone says, "It's 90 degrees out. Damn this global warming!" Good one. :)
  14. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    No, the former is a side effect of the latter. Climate is a complex system, but one example I remember of an effect of global warming is that higher temperatures overall cause more melting of ice, which can manifest as more precipitation in some areas. But yeah, strictly speaking, "global warming" refers to the increase in the average temperature of the lower atmosphere and oceans. That other stuff is the effects of global warming.

    You seem to imply that you don't think global warming is a real phenomenon and then go on in the very next sentence to say that it is, but that it's not anthropogenic. I see this sort of thing pretty much whenever global warming is brought up, but it's baffling to me. Whatever any of our opinions are, the reality is either that there is no global warming, there is global warming and it's not anthropogenic at all, or there is global warming and some portion of it is anthropogenic. It's got to be one of those three. It can't be two of them.

    Anyway, I take issue with those espousing that the first position (there is no global warming) is correct because it's so demonstrably wrong. But as for those who reject anthropogenic global warming only, well, that's not necessarily unreasonable. The anthropogenicity of global warming has been debated for decades among climatologists. And knowing to an appreciable degree of confidence how much of an effect human activities have had on the climate is very, very difficult.

    However, despite that, there have been some pretty impressive advances in the field in the past several years (the Vostok ice core being my favorite example, but there's so much more). As I understand it, the case for some degree of anthropogenicity is looking pretty strong. But I don't have training in this field. So I have to rely somewhat on the scrutiny of those who do. If someone who understands the science behind this stuff better than I do objects to models or the details being used to support them, then fine. I respect that. But what I usually see is handwaving the problem away by people who have no idea what they're talking about. That's not speaking about you specifically because even though you sound just like other people I know who don't know what they're talking about, maybe you actually do. Maybe you've researched this. I couldn't say...

    Ooh, I've seen this claim too. And I have two very major problems with it. Firstly, I haven't seen evidence that it's true. Secondly, even if it were true, what does it have to do with whether global warming is happening or whether it's anthropogenic? It's a non-issue. If global warming is anthropogenic, it wouldn't matter if the people who "raised the alarm" were the worst scum in history. And if global warming isn't anthropogenic, it wouldn't matter if the people who "raised the alarm" had the very best of intentions. The facts aren't dependent on the identities of the people pointing them out.

    Also, I gather that you're referring to politicians, who haven't ever really been the people I'd say really raised the alarm on this. All any politician ever did was repeat (sometimes badly) what scientists had already said. Well, sometimes the politicians just make crap up too. But as for the scientists, while it's not impossible for them to falsify results, they tend to get caught rather quickly and once they're caught, they're ostracized.

    If it were just politicians involved, I'd say sure, politicians lie and mislead the public for personal gain. But scientists don't have that luxury.

    Another favorite of my dad's and a really, really bad excuse. This is tantamount to, "Well, I don't actually know anything about climate, but a while back some people made a prediction and it was wrong. Therefore, this prediction is wrong too."

    Haven't you heard that two wrongs don't make a right? But seriously, I have seen that a little too and I hate it.
  15. EricBess Active Member

    Well, not quite so direct. At least if you feel like it is "warm", that is a logical thing. This website is dedicated to tracking things that the media has at some point blamed on global warming. Each item contains a link and they update the site whenever someone reports that one of the links has gone dead. I suppose it's possible that not all of the links are intended as serious news stories, but the ones I've clicked through on have been.
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    That site is made of win.
  17. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    So... no one else getting a lot of snow other than me and Ransac? :)
  18. turgy22 Nothing Special

    Is two inches a lot? That's about what I got on Tuesday night. We'll see what the weekend brings...
  19. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It's a lot if you normally don't get any snow... :) I'm waiting to see what this weekend will bring too...
  20. train The Wildcard!!!...

    No direct snow in Sac - but there's some in the ranges around there, and in the southern Cal ranges I've been driving through the last couple days...

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