School Shootings?

[Multani]

Education takes too much time to be effective. There already are educational programs out there. Are they making a difference? If they are, than I must be blind, because I don't see a difference.
True, people kill people, but people must also have tools to kill people. Take away those tools, and all the will to kill in the world isn't necessarily going to help.
Also, the difference between guns and bombs or other mediums, is that a gun shooting can happen instantly, and takes little preparation. Bombs take much longer....and still haven't given me the bomb statistics to prove your point....

In the long run, education may make a bigger difference than any legislation action can possibly hope to make, but if that difference does happen, it will come at a horrendous cost of lives....
Something has to be done. Putting safties and stricter guns laws are BS, and are made just to impress the people. It's more of a gesture than anything else.

 

[Daggertooth]

By Multani
Education takes too much time to be effective. There already are educational programs out there. Are they making a difference?

Fist of all, what education programs are you talking about. I am only aware of hunters safety. (which in not a required course even if you own a gun)

Bottom line is, the education is not out there. Sure there is a little, but it's not mandatory. I believe an increase in anger management and gun handling management will have a significant effect on school violence and accidental shootings within the next 10 to 20 years. Sure that's just speculation, But education does work. After all, school violence has been on a decrease for the past 8 years.

by Multani
True, people kill people, but people must also have tools to kill people. Take away those tools, and.....

.......the people will find a different tool. As the statistics I have provided show, Most violent acts have 1 or 2 deaths. How hard is it to kill one person with a gun, knife, bomb, poison, or anything else? Not to mention many of these have specific targets they are after.

by Multani
Also, the difference between guns and bombs or other mediums, is that a gun shooting can happen instantly, and takes little preparation. Bombs take much longer....and still haven't given me the bomb statistics to prove your point....

You are mistaken. These students have been bullied painfully and slowly over a long period of time. In most cases it is when the student, "couldn't take it anymore." This doesn't happen over night. On the average the student talks about what he is going to do days before he actually does it. So it's not as instantaneous as you think.

I'm still working on those bomb statistics. (these things don't grow on tree's )

By Multani
In the long run Education may make a bigger difference than any legislation action can possibly hope to make, but if that difference does happen, it will come at a horrendous cost of lives....Something has to be done. Putting safeties and stricter guns laws are BS, and are made just to impress the people. It's more of a gesture than anything else.

How can you say, "it will come at a horrendous cost of lives?" There has been a significant 8% decline in school violence, despite the rise in publicity, since 1993. According to the FBI, this is due to the very legislation you call BS. And the long run is the goal.


Now here is another, stranger twist to the violence issue. I came across it in my search for statistics. It has little to do with our course of discussion, but I though you all would find it interesting. Enjoy:

Study urged of pesticide, youth violence link


Daggertooth

 

[Multani]

Throughout this discussion you have nearly outright ignored the fact that guns are capable of taking many lives in a single shooting. You act as if a gun might as well be a knife. Giz said this, and I regret that I didn't think of this earlier. You can run away from a knife, but you can't very well run away from a gun...

Originally posted by Daggertooth

You are mistaken. These students have been bullied painfully and slowly over a long period of time. In most cases it is when the student, "couldn't take it anymore." This doesn't happen over night. On the average the student talks about what he is going to do days before he actually does it. So it's not as instantaneous as you think.

I don't know how long bombs take to build, and I won't discuss it on these boards either. (Big Brother is watching....) But, I do know that from common sense, a shooting takes less preparation then any bombings. A efficent bombing is not easy to create. And keep in mind, this is speculation. I don't know how long bombs take to build, work, etc. But, I think anyone with a sane mind can say that a shooting is more quickly arranged than a bombing...
Also, (until the statistics arrive) that shootings also happen faster and more often that bombings...

Originally posted by Daggertooth

How can you say, "it will come at a horrendous cost of lives?" There has been a significant 8% decline in school violence, despite the rise in publicity, since 1993. According to the FBI, this is due to the very legislation you call BS. And the long run is the goal.

You call 8% in 8 years significant?! Let's look at how many people have died from shootings. Probably less than 100 based on your statistics. In 8 years, 100 people have died. Now you say there is an 8% reduction. Okay, we'll say 92 people have died. Now, 10 years in the future, judging from approximately the same rate, about 150 people have died. Now, those were 150 youthful, smart, and potential-filled students who died because it took education to 10 years to do what MIGHT have been accomplished by a single law 10 years ago. Sure, in the long run education accomplishes more, but tell that to the families of the students who have died, or will die in the next 10 years....if that's not a horrendous cost, then I don't know what horrendous by your definition is....


People. This debate is not going anywhere. None of our opinions have yet to be shaken. Like Spidey said, we're going in circles. I think it's about time we wrap this up. Daggertooth, I'll give you a few days to find the statistics. After that, I'll ask FoR if he wants this thread closed. If you find the stats after this thread is closed/abandoned, PM me, and we can have our own little private chat....

 

[Spiderman]

Multani: Sure, guns have the POTENTIAL to take out a lot of people but as Daggertooth showed, it's not happening in reality. Frankly, the reaction to banning guns is making a mountain out of a molehill. As I have said before, there are plenty other things out there that are killing youths.

It's like a plane accident: there aren't too many of them but they get the big news because a lot of people die in one crash. Car accidents, on the other hand, get a lot less exposure yet they kill more people over time.

I have a question: Where are your statistics/facts to back your opinions? Daggertooth has been doing a pretty good job for his (my ) side, but I would like to see yours.