Saviors of Kamigawa Preview

[Spiderman]

has started...

Mark Rosewater

Any thoughts on the Epic mechanic? White's for enchantments, so one of the other colors will be artifacts? Creatures?

 

[Spiderman]

Rei Nakazawa

 

[Killer Joe]

I like it! As for the other colors?
~Blue: target players returns all permenants?
~Red: target player is dealt 10 damage?
~Green: Put a 10/10 trample green creature token into play?
~Black: Target players losses 5 life you gain 5 life?

I don't think I have the mechanic right but I think it's definitely a "late-in-game" kind of card.

 

[Oversoul]

Enduring Ideal just seems too expensive. If it doesn't win the game for you, it loses it. And since it costs so much mana, you'll have to play it late game, in which case you'll still lose if your opponent can outplay your enchantment searching (not difficult in the late game). This means you must already have a good or nearly dominant board position...

 

[jorael]

Wow, looking up Form of the Dragon with Enduring Ideal looks cool.

 

[Nightstalkers]

Hmm... I have a deck that would totally stomp with the Enduring Ideal if you could only foot the bill for the mana.... Hmm... I think I might be able to do it.

Michiko = Funny version of No Mercy


but in the end, the epic ability is defunct. You are most likely going to lose before getting the mana out to do the damage, and the no spell thing kinda kills you outright.

 

[jorael]

...but in the end, the epic ability is defunct. You are most likely going to lose before getting the mana out to do the damage, and the no spell thing kinda kills you outright...

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but some players said the same thing about Tooth and Nail.

 

[Oversoul]

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but some players said the same thing about Tooth and Nail.

I'm not saying that you're saying that Nightstalkers is wrong, but Tooth and Nail costs a lot of mana to do something very good, while this thing costs a lot of mana to do something very good and something HORRIBLE.

That said, when new cards for Scourge were being revealed, I saw Dragonstorm and thought, "Wow, the new ability would be comborific on any card that isn't ridiculously inefficient, but they'll probably make the other cards weak like this one." Well, one of the other storm cards was Mind's Desire, so perhaps I should have waited to pass judgment...

 

[jorael]

I'm not saying that you're saying that I said that Nightstalkers is wrong, but...

And now a serious look at the card:

If you can tutor every turn for enchantments that act like silver bullets (planar void, righteous cause, decree of silence, solitary confinement) and win conditions (form of the dragon, mobilization) that is very good indeed and can win you the game. In Kamigawa block, your could tutor for a Honden each turn.

The interesting part is the horrible drawback. Can it be circumvented? Cards like Aether Vial and cycling triggers still work. And there is rumored to be a cycle of creatures in Saviors that you can discard for an effect (no card drawing). It's called channel according to mtg salvation. See here...
Makes it more interesting doesn't it?

Whoa, how nasty would an Astral Slide deck be with this?! You can tutor for Astral Slide and Lightning Rift and still cycle all your cards away.

Damn!

 

[Dark_Tira]

I think Jorael is right about this, the epic ability has many ways to be circumvented and the effect is powerful enough to warrent the casting cost and drawback. That being said, Enduring Ideal is pretty weak in block and standard. The only things currently worth grabbing are hondens and genju of the realms, which I don't think make this card worthwhile.

 

[Oversoul]

I think Jorael is right about this, the epic ability has many ways to be circumvented and the effect is powerful enough to warrent the casting cost and drawback.

Powerful enough to warrant the mana cost? Probably. Powerful enough to warrant the drawback as well? I'm not so sure. Academy Rector costs three mana less, and its drawback is that you have to have a way to kill it.

I cannot think of any enchantment so incredibly good that it will win you the game even if you aren't able to play any more spells. If such an enchantment existed, then a deck built around it would rather just cast it than pay seven mana to grab it out of the library.

The Epic thing could allow for some nice tricks, like grabbing local enchantments and putting them onto an opponent's permanents, or grabbing some series of enchantments (first something defensive like Solitary Confinement, and then others) in order to win the game, but for one thing, you have to actually have all of those enchantments in your library, and for another, not being able to play any more spells at all for the rest of a game is such a huge drawback that it might not even matter what enchantments you grab...

 

[Nightstalkers]

Well, with what is coming (what Jorael said) I can see where it can come in handy.

But other than that... I don't see much good of it. If from what KJ says is true about the black Epic card... some of these colors are getting the shaft, bad. If I can get the mana out, I can pretty well make it so that my enchantment deck kills if it can pull anything out of it each turn.

As for 5 dmg/5 lf... What the bloody heck is that? Sure you get a 5 for 5 trade-off, but you get the serious shaft when dealing with just about anything.


But of course, someone playing an Enduring Renewal with some of my decks would make me smile and try not to laugh. The card has the major drawback that your opponent can't defend themself with more than enchantments and what they already have down. In a multiplayer game... I dunno, probably paint someone as a big easy target.

 

[evan d]

My two opinions so far:

One, if the white epic spell costed less it would make Hondens true contenders.

Two, I want to make a deck of Man lands and Epic spells. Who cares if I can't paly spells for the rest of the game, lands aren't spells after all.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I'm not sure how this works(the Epic mechanic) but wouldn't you just discard these and use the second ability during your upkeep. That way you never really have to "play" them. If it works like that then someone will figure out a casual deck to abuse atleast one color.





oh Yeah, I forgot. If nothing else you could recycle them back into your deck with a bauble or remove them from the graveyard somehow and play spells again.

 

[orgg]

My initial reaction?

:yawn:

 

[Istanbul]

Epic spells rock. Anyone who says differently is wrong.

 

[Spiderman]

So is Epic more a "casual" mechanic? You know it's only the first card preview out of the block, so you know you can't really judge its merits yet

from what KJ says is true about the black Epic card...

I think KJ was just speculating, as was I. I was trying to think if all the colors would have a Tutor effect rather than an ability usually associated with that particular color...

 

[Spiderman]

Mark Gottlieb

 

[jorael]

I like minigames. I like this card. Fun to play after a Sway the Stars

 

[Limited]

I'm not sure how this works(the Epic mechanic) but wouldn't you just discard these and use the second ability during your upkeep. That way you never really have to "play" them.

I'm not sure i understand you.. The copies you get during all the following upkeeps are part of the spell; you have to play them to get the copies.

That said...

I don't think the white one will see Standard play, but it's great for casual. Enchantment creatures come to mind.

I'm guessing the Blue one won't be drawing cards , but will be something like "Copy target creature"
Black could be a Drain Life effect, or a reanimation.. "Return two target creature cards from your graveyard to play"
Green should be something like Overrun. "All creatures you control get +5/+5 and cannot be blocked by only one creature".. or maybe "Until end of turn, you may discard a card from your hand to put a 3/3 spirit token into play"..
Red ... This has to be burn galore.. "Deals four damage to target player and each creature he or she controls"..

Any thoughts? Will I go 3 for 4?