Randy's response to the Poker Vs. Magic debate

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Reverend Love, Jul 2, 2004.

  1. Reverend Love New Member

    Read it here. As usual Randy's got some valid points. However the article kind of turns into sales pitch later on.

    I was wondering if anyone else noticed that all the instances of "magic" are bolded?

    Shall we don our tin-foil hats and drum up some conspiracy theories of WoTC trying to subconsciously influence our decisions?

    Reverend's 2 Cents:

    I love to watch Texas 2 draw, 2-hand, 2-wives, whatever it's called. Last December when I was in the states visiting the familia, that's all I watched...that and Monster Garage.

    Anyways, I honestly think if anything is a fad it's the current popularity of poker. It'll die back down and all the SSG article whores will decry some new sky falling.

    ....huh, huh...huh,huh....I said whores...
  2. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I read it and what got me was the statement about Magic not having to cost anything before you can win. You have to buy cards! Of course it's going to cost you! Maybe not the $15,000 for a seat in the championships but it's definitely not free as he tries to say.

    I think poker will stay around though - apparently the Internet has helped a lot of people become "poker masters" and with Texas Hold 'Em being televised on cable (at least the B-list celebrity version), there's a bigger audience.
  3. Master Shake New Member

    Randy Buehler effectivly wrote the worst article aside from anything written on Londes.com

    I read the article and came here, to point out how he is still and idiot, and writes about either:

    A. The most invalid points concerning Magic The gathering/Man kind
    2. Well... there really is not a two.

    Why does he have that job?

    I do not know if you are like me, 6'3", 260 lbs, brown hair, brown eyes, but I hate him.

    Of course poker will stay around.

    Poker has been around for a couple hundered years, perhaps more, and will be around for the rest of western civilization. Magic has been around for less the fifteen, and will eventrually die out, as poker would if there was a 53rd card that said, "you win this hand" but you did not shuffle it back into the deck, you just kept it next to you and used it whenever.
  4. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I guess that Magic might have done better if it had been more like poker in some ways...
  5. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    I didnt see the point of said article...Secondly, he has to get his head on straight. POKER will be here to stay. POKER has been here longer. And POKER won't cost you anything before you can start winning money. POKER has been around for ages, so referring to it as a NEW GAME, is silly. If anyone even tries to compare these Johnny come lately ccg to poker which is pretty much the grand daddy of all card games, they need to re evaluate themselves. To say Magic is the number 1 card game in existence would be lying to yourself. Im sure more people play poker than they do magic. Heck, I been playing poker (not well) since I have been a kid. I'm sure even he had played poker before magic rolled around. In closing, take foot out of mouth.
  6. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Not that it's much special - but it's kind of odd...

    I thinking I was standing in front of him at Regionals... Not sure if he had a table or not...

    oh well...

    As for the two - you can bluff in poker - you can't in Magic... you either have it or you don't... and bluffing in Magic doesn't win the game for you...

    For those of you considering a blue-related response to this - the way I play against blue calls the bluff every time...:)
  7. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    Yeup...you have too...
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, you do usually have to pay an entry fee to get in the big bucks poker tournaments...

    I disagree about the bluffing... you may not personally bluff or get people to try to bluff against you, but that's like saying the same in poker where you don't bluff or call people's bluffs in poker. If somewhere, sometime, a person can make their opponent think they have a card (or not) and affect their play, that's bluffing in Magic.
  9. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    I disagree about the bluffing. See in magic sure you can bluff and feint. But at the end, you can either win lose or draw. It doesn't matter if you bluffed or not. In poker, control of what the other player thinks is what makes you the bucks. You don't have to win many hands, you just have to make sure you minimize your losses and maximize your wins. And all this is controlled by the bluff.
  10. Reverend Love New Member


    However you can't buy yourself a win in Magic like you can poker. Poker uses it's markers as a resource, primarily for backing up either a good or poor hand. There is no comparable resource in magic...you can't buy yourself a win so to speak.

    Yea you can attack with you 1/1 and hope they think your holding a giant growth, but anyone worth their salt is going to call you out.

    Also we can look at the highest level of play in both card games. The bluff is an integral part of a master poker plays repertoire. The bluff in magic is an obtuse form of play with no real uses, and completely ignored by master MtG pros.
  11. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    huh huh, you said master poker huh, huh....
  12. Reverend Love New Member

    Poke...huh, huh, huh......PokeHer.....huh, huh, huh..
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, it'd sure be interesting to survey the top Magic pros and see if their play is affected by what they think their opponent is holding. The way I understand it, they usually think several moves ahead based on the current game info and play according to that; they don't "blindly" play their cards as you seem to put it (I'm sure you don't mean it that way :) ) But that's basically what Magic without bluffing is: playing your cards without consideration for your opponent. If you ever think about what your opponent might have, you're playing into a bluff.

    Obviously this is more suited to the second and third game when you have a better feel for what the opponent is playing, or you can pretty much tell from their opening plays.
  14. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    I don't think he means blindly. But Magic at its highest level can be played so logically that bluffs play no part in it. Either you have it or you don't. If you get psyched out cuz you think that guy has a counter spell then you lose. If you don't get psyched out you have a 50/50 chance (I am doing the probabilities loosely, I know..just bare with me.) Thus by following logic you dont care about bluffs and you reduce your chance from 75% loss to a 50% loss.

    Huh huh, I said bare....
  15. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    The current environment is probably not the best to use as an example since blue got watered down, but a couple of years ago when it was going strong, I know pros "did the math" and thought logically about whether they could win a counter war when blue was involved. They usually only went for broke if they could win in that turn if they could win the counter war or lose that turn if they didn't play - otherwise they held on until they were more sure they could win the certain spell situation.

    That's not strictly "bluffing" the way you see it in poker, but like I said above, if you're thinking and making plays on what you think your opponent may have, that's still some bluffing involved, whether your opponent is active about it or not (i.e. he may not intentionally intend to be bluffing).
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    If I drop a card with Illusionary Mask and you kill it, but it was Birds of Paradise, then I drop another and attack next turn with a Phyrexian Dreadnought, you just fell for a bluff...
  17. Reverend Love New Member

    ...BoPs in a Masknaught deck...I'm sure there's a few Benalish Heroes in there too :rolleyes:
  18. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Indeed. Anybody remember a few years back pool was the hot game to watch, despite its association with bar fights in movies? And up until last year, Nascar was getting mainstream popularity, despite its association with rednecks in every joke?

    Poker will fade. Stupid game.
  19. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Vengeur Masque or whatever the one is called. The best way I can describe it is a hybridized MaskNought/Full English Breakfast deck...
  20. Reverend Love New Member

    No kidding....hmm. It musta been horrible. The entire point of Masknaught is to slap down a fattie 12/12 on the 1st turn. With tutoring and acceleration to help. I don't see how a BoP could be squeezed into Mask's already tight cardpool.

    Ooh well, live and learn.

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