...
First, Lotus Mox - I never ever mentioned that I was fond of the Greeks...or their philosophy. I was simply stating the fact that society has been shaped by what they believed. Additionally, just because I think homosexuality is a form of degeneration doesn't at all mean I think it's "bad." Like I previously stated, all my friends are either homosexual or bisexual. I generally find them to be
higher on the intellectual scale, more spirited, more passionate about life, and better people in general. That doesn't make it "natural." I don't believe that men were desirous to interact sexually with other men way in the past, but I do believe that men have always had the capacity to pay reverence to what is beautiful, including beautiful men.
Homosexuality as a sexual interaction between two men or two women, now here we begin to reach muddy grounds.
...it might seem like I'm trying to enforce a "higher order" or some "divine purpose" - but again, I don't speak from there. I believe this way because I believe something along the way caused men to want to interact sexually with other men. Having reverence for beauty is completely different than actually
sleeping with men...although I can understand how this can easily be misunderstood, especially here in America...maybe in the entire West.
Aku:
As DUke pointed out before…many of them, if given the choice would rather be straight…
I never said such a thing. What I said was that homosexuals are homosexuals beyond choice – there is no “preference” about it, so the term “sexual preference” is incorrect. I have
never in my life encountered a homo or bisexual who desired to be "straight." Most of the one's I know, seeing as how they are generally around 40,
love being who they are. And I'm not using the term "love" to mean "accept." No, I mean they worship their sexuality. There is no regretting, wishing, and hoping...
Aku:
I for one feel that love is love. Period. And no one in the world has a right to say who can love whom....I am willing to bet my soul most others feel the same.
I don't feel the same. In fact, I disagree. It's really
slavish to think this way: "what I feel is right and no one has any power over it...
yet I have the power over what others should feel, or how others should go, or that Christianity is 'good.'" I don't even believe in "love." I believe there is a sense of insecurity,
fear of loneliness, and in all cases
not wanting to discover one's self. That's what I gather from love after my "The Immoralities of Love" ethics paper.
Now to Eric...if and when you read this, you must
not take anything personally (trust me, what're you about to read is downright offending). You know I like you - what I'm speaking about are religious men as I have experienced them...not Christians, not Muslims...just religious men of all ages and types. Please do not take it personally.
Ericbess:
Duke - I said "...their Lord..." because The Lord is the same for everyone, regardless of whether or not their is a belief system in place. My point, however, was that their circumstances could mitigate in whether or not what they did was "wrong" by their understanding
How is it that you say
their Lord yet you mean
the one and only divine Lord?
But this is being too picky...
How do you say the Lord is the same for everyone yet you proudly call yourself a "Christian"? Shouldn't you be more, say, universal? Since the Lord is the same, why be a Christian? Fine. You say Christianity is what tied you to your Lord, but you're done now. You've
found the Lord - why remain a Christian? Should your story now revolve around
you and your Lord, and not still be in need of something as temporal as Christianity?
You've found the Lord. What a noble man this makes you for
so little of a price. You still enjoy and seek the pleasures of this life, you desire your best interest still, and secretly you desire illness on those who thwart your mission to happiness. Or, if you're completely poisoned with Christianity, you might even be
all-forgiving - as in you
suppress your anger and rage, you try to silence it, and then it grows inside of you as a cancerous belief. It really gives you
broad unconscious. Let me tell you one thing: you don't
learn to be a Christian. You don't
become a Christian. You don't
become anything. The mere fact that you are so close to your Christianity means you strive to become what you are
not. What you originally
lack you try to learn through Christianity. Here's the deal: you do not learn above and beyond your Nature. You are what you are. You don't
become. When someone who lacks attempt to
become something else, they become suppressive and abusive to themselves. For example, you might tolerate and consider different people, you might even forgive them out of your
Christianity, and
not out of your Nature - meaning you go against yourself. But there is no such thing as "going against one's self" - there is
no defying one's desires: what you actually do when you do the "right thing" out of Christianity or Religion, as in forgiveness and tolerance, you are merely suppressing what you instinctively feel. It really gives you a nice surface though - a noble man's surface - but it defiles your inside - it gives you a "psychology." It gives you an unconscious. It...divides your mind. It divides your body. It divides you as a whole.
You become a Holy Man, but not a Wholly man. Holiness as I understand it, it means
sickness - multi-mindedness, unconsciousness, and self deception: it means cheating one’s self from what one is and striving to become what one is not. That you tell me you’re so fond of Christianity, still after you’ve found your divine Lord, it only means that you’ve sought and sought for all your life until you became who you are today, out of compulsion, out of necessity, perhaps out of fear and trembling, out of weakness, self-inefficiency, and retardation in general. You didn't become "noble" out of willingness, out of Nature, out of heart. Your Nature is wretched, thus you need to “cure” it. But here I am, and tell you: there is no cure, only suppression, reformation of what you
are. If it is filth, wretchedness, and lustfulness is what you
are, than that is what you will remain - you might it suppress it (reform it), you might delay it, you might
sincerely try to change...but there is no overruling your Nature, no going beyond one's desires. You are your desires. And if you needed Christianity at a point in time, it means that you discovered yourself to be an inferior type of human beings, a
lower animal who needs to be cured. You don’t lose your intolerance, hatred, violence, and resentment, rather you only
conceal it behind what
you call “divine.” You shield yourself away from examination because you have degenerated
that far. To the point that our modern societies
value your types as
normal human beings, giving them the "right" and "freedom" they so desire, enabling the wretched to the exclusive freedom that is only
earned through one's Nature, and not
attained. These types of men are so dangerous in a democratic society, because their voices are “equally heard” when they deserve no attention whatsoever. They are, in any case, the
lower species of humanity. I have a special name for those…
Noble men exist, I assure you, but they are by Nature tolerant, accepting, striving, thoughtful, and spiritual too. There is no compulsion about it, no learning, no waiting for a reward. They don’t learn it. They don’t consider out of their God, but out of their being. They are by Nature great human beings.
Eric:
The fact that a bunch of apparently random particles that come together based on genetic coding (where did that come from?) to form an entity that not only has the ability to move around, but free will and a since of self and identity.
Just because they are
not random doesn't mean there is a God. It only means one thing: they are not random. Randomness, chaos, and order are
human valuations. What is random? What is chaos? You are
bound to answer such questions with what your human eyes see. There is no randomness whatsoever,
only to the human being and their interpretation. And even in such valuations, you only interpret what
affirms you, and not what denies you. Order is that which says Yes to you. Chaos is that which opposes you. It's that simple. Evil is that which thwarts your happiness. Good is that which makes you happy.
All your valuations, including moral and political, are merely based on what
you physiologically and psychologically
need. You can't do otherwise - there is no "objectivity" about your being. As long as you are alive,
your desires are your only horizons. Conceal them all you want behind words like “reason,” “objectivity,” “love for others,” and “divine purpose.” It will not change a thing. Even your Heaven is appealing to you because it gives you a certain sense of satisfaction and comfort, it alleviates you as you escape your responsibility to
think, and instead, choose to
adapt to what is “good” and “happy,” or in your language, what is “divine.”
Eric:
Regardless, assume for a moment Duke that there is a God and that God created this earth and everything on it. Do you think you could put that much creative energy into something and not care what becomes of it? Can you imagine a father that raises a child and then decides when the child turns 15 that he's going to ignore it for the rest of his life?
Fine. Let us assume that there is a God. You should know, just for the record, that I'm nowhere near being an atheist - I'm trapped in a trinity of belief, disbelief, and as the leader of this trinity I have my desires. But...let us assume that there is a certain
belief, that there is this God who has created Heaven and Earth out his spirit. Let's venture so deep so as to fly beyond the search for God. Now, we are
believers. But what matters! What matters is our belief! What matters is God? You are an animal on
this Earth. You have an
obligation to live, and therefore to be
responsible about your life. But since you're a believer, you live a life of resignation, a life that proudly says: "what matter is
this life and my spirit, my passion, my desires...if God has a plan for me in
another,
better life?" - you live your life
neglecting life! The terrible selfishness in which you go about your days is quite monstrous too - you live
this life but
resign from the responsibility of living it to the end...you neglect and ignore serious issues, or people who do not posses your beliefs…because, at the end, "nothing matters but your so-called 'faith' and 'Lord.'" And if I be so kind here today to suggest that such a man must commit his suicide since he is of
no use to those who
care about this life and this heavenly Earth, you would tell me that your God is not fond of suicide! Because God wants you to live this life too. And the next. And all lives possible.
You want all lives possible, don't you? How convenient and
easy. You
fight so hard to keep your freedom, you even choose sides if needed to be, but when it comes to fairness, for example, you don’t bother with that – “what matters?” you say. Because you want
your happiness first. See, you still live this life, but you live it with a spice of deception in it, an extra-sugary sensation of super selfishness that only a religious man can be capable of emitting. Again I ask,
what matters is God? You are living this life. Be responsible for
this life. Care and strive for and in this life...
and that is what you do anyway. You merely use "God" to escape the greater responsibility of
not choosing sides, but
being your own person. No
gaining freedom, but
being free if you are, indeed,
free. All you want your God for is safety, security, and fulfillment of
your desires. That's it. That's faith. That's all faith ever was and that's what faith will remain.
Eric:
...but I think you have a nasty little habit of twisting what is said just a bit.
No I don't. What I do is pull out your feelings based on what you say. Every religious man is naturally paranoid and uncomfortable with his beliefs, they all hesitate before actually speaking about themselves - what I do is try to trip them even more so as to have them
slip out what they only want to keep for themselves. I like to hear the whole truth...not just the sugery parts...
