proxy cards

[geek]

What do you guys think of people proxying cards for casual play?
As a whole I don't have much of a problem with it, and a few expensive/hard to get cards while testing out an idea is fine. However, there is one guy in my play group that plays with a VERY large amount of proxies in his decks. I'm talking 60%+ of the cards!
Now I like the guy, he's fun, interesting, has some pretty good ideas for alternative decks and I'd hate for him to not be part of our group. But for some reason his excessive proxying annoys the hell out of me.
I don't know why it bugs me like it does. Maybe it's because if I don't have the cards for a deck I put in the next (or third or forth) best card for the job if it's all I have to hand and either trade for or buy the cards when I get chance. Maybe because it's pretty much all his decks that are proxy filled.
I can understand why he's proxied up. Magic is an expensive game at the best of times. I work, and If I want some cards for a deck it's not a problem to drop $15 on a play set of something just right for a deck if I really want to. He's a student and on a tight budget.
I've mentioned this to other people we play with and while they don't have the same problem I seem to have the say they find it a drag to as they do as I do and make do with what they have.
I also think it's worth saying that he doesn't proxy really stupid cards and has never turned up with a 'Mox Mountain-With-A-Postit-Note'.

What I'm getting at is: Am I being an idiot about it? Is this behaviour normal in your groups? Am I over reacting?
Or do you think that he's being a bit over the top? Have you had a "problem" with this in your group and how did you deal with it?

I think the best way to deal with it is for me to just accept it, but I'd love to hear any opinions on what other players think.

Geek

 

[Spiderman]

Well, as long as he's not proxying the power cards, in abstract it's fine. I agree that it's annoying though; I mean, you're supposed to be playing with your cards that you buy or trade, not ones you sub in.

If the group agrees, you may want to restrict the number of proxies in a deck. You can do this several ways:

• Total number of proxies in the deck
• Limit to just x type of cards (like 4 Ravagers or something)
• Can only have 1 proxy of any amount and type of cards (1 Ravager, 1 Chrome Mox, etc)

 

[Killer Joe]

I thought I was the only one who was just as annoyed as you are about proxys.

There is one member of one of my groups that proxy's basic land, too. It's to the point that more folks in that group are proxying as well. His opinion is that; by agreeing to play against him you agree to accepting whatever cards he's using. Unfortunately, he doesn't deal well with others taking the same freedom with proxys.

I do not play against this person very much if at all. If you want to play this guy (I assume that he's your friend) then change the format to something like we do; "Casual Common Drafting".

We repack booster packs with a fairly even amount of deiffent colors in each pack and run a draft. For Mirrodin/Mirrodin/Darksteel common drafts we do 3 artifacts to one of each color.

You can't PROXY for this.

This guy, he likes it, but doesn't do too well in this format. It wrecks his "Win" record.

Personally, at any one time I have at least 8 - 12 decks assembled without any proxys, however, if I do use a proxy I only make what I have. For instance, I have one Chrome Mox, I only proxy one Chrome Mox and that's if I'm using it in another and am too lazy to pull it out. I don't have any Ravagers, so I use Atog (boom, case closed).

~OORRRRRRRRRR~

You could ramp up the best type one deck and only use it against him and say: "By agreeing to play against me you agree to any and all of the cards I am using."

 

[Nightstalkers]

Meh, thats okay... but not as long as he's always using the proxy deck.


Right now I've got a Black Lotus proxy (for show only, freaks out some kids who look in my binder ), 4 Sapphire Medallions (Yes folks, I'm still lookin' for them), 2 Ensnaring Bridges, and 3 Grafted Skullcaps. Yep, thats all. I built a proxy deck a while back, but it was a net deck and I kept it as just a deck made of paper proxies because I never use a net deck to play for real. (Note: I mainly just steal the mechanics from one and twist it around so that I could use it :EVIL: )



But if he's using a proxy deck all the time, either offer to trade him whatever cards you can get him for his deck, or simply disallow him to play the deck at all.

 

[DeathMaster666]

When I playtest I proxy, and most of my play group doesn't care as long as they are reasonable (no Library of Alexandrias ). Usually I have 4-5 proxy limits though.

 

[Istanbul]

With proxies, I use the Rules of Ten.

- No more than 10% of your deck can be proxies.
- You can't proxy cards worth less than $10. Trade for them.
- Proxies are worth 10% of the normal card value in trade. If that.

 

[DeathMaster666]

Ehh? Proxies are worth $0.00 in trade value if you ask me.

 

[Reverend Love]

Set a limit on the number of proxies. Like 6 per deck or something.

I do have problems with people who proxy killer decks though..if you want to win so bad drop the loot.

 

[geek]

Thanks for your opinions.

The biggest problem with setting limits, is as mosy of his decks are made up of proxy cards, saying only x proxies per deck would destroy just about all his decks. Like I say, he's a top guy and I don't want to push him from the group by making arbitrary rulings that will pretty much effect only him. It's never nice to be singled out. It is good to know I'm not being unreasonable about it though.

Is there any body here who is a big fan of proxying or had people turn around and say "no you can't" to a proxy filled deck? What was it like (not nice, I assume) and what did you do next?

Geek

P.S.
Istanbul - 10% you say? I have a proxy Lotus here. Would you like it? Only $70
P.P.S
<obvious>Given the topic, I'd better say that I don't actually have a proxy Lotus.</obvious>

 

[Istanbul]

A truly quality proxy of a Lotus has been known to sell for up to $50.

 

[geek]

Originally posted by Istanbul
A truly quality proxy of a Lotus has been known to sell for up to $50.

Some people really do have too much money

 

[Spiderman]

The biggest problem with setting limits, is as mosy of his decks are made up of proxy cards, saying only x proxies per deck would destroy just about all his decks. Like I say, he's a top guy

Top guy or not, he can only get away with it as long as you guys let him. I mean, it sounds like he wants to play without basically paying for the cards. That's fine if your group is like-minded, but since it sounds like it isn't, he's the one in the minority and should adjust and start getting the actual cards.

I mean, if it's a bunch of commons and uncommons he needs, I'm sure some people here can trade/give those away

 

[geek]

That's the thing though isn't it? Commons/uncommons aren't the problem. Generally if you want either power or crazy effects (or in most cases both) then you gotta be hitting the rare slot.

At the end of the day I don't want to tell a friend that he's not welcome. I've had the obvious ideas myself and I would not want to push the whole "get the cards or get out" ultimatum onto him. I know he doesn't have the cash to cover a bunch of cards every 4 months.

I don't know what I expected in response when I posted here, I just thought a general post would let me gauge whether I'm over reacting and might possibly bring in a creative solution that would not ostracize a friend. Like I said earlier, I'd also be interested in hearing from people who do/did proxy heavily and what their reaction was/would be when they were confronted over it.

From the few replies on here it seems that it's a niggling thing for other people too, but then if you're interested enough to come to a MTG site and post on the forums then you're probably already into magic enough to make getting the cards you need a priority for your disposable income, and therefore a touch biased towards my point of view.

All I can say is thanks a lot to anyone who has taken time to read or even possibly answer my little query.


Geek

 

[Spiderman]

I don't know, if he's proxying rare cards and most of his decks are proxies, then why are most of his decks composed of rares? And if they aren't the "power" cards in general, he should be able to trade for most of them...

well, obviously you're playing with him and you're right there and know the situation, so it's up to you with whatever you do

 

[Killer Joe]

I got it! Well, it's just a variant of a way to play. Have everyone in the group make an all COMMON deck. Not only is this a FUN way to play Magic but it helps build skills, too. If you can't win with a common deck you need to work more on skills.

Not all the time but once in a while.

BTW, did you say YOU proxy decks?

 

[geek]

I never proxy decks. If I don't have what I need I just use similar effects and live with it.

 

[Rooser]

My group doesn't really mind proxies. One guy is usually too arrogant to "stoop down" to using proxies himself, but sometimes he does anyway. I'm willing to use proxies but usually just go after the cards anyway, so I don't use them too much. Another guy uses them frequently, but they're only meantime solutions while he waits to get the time or money to get the actual cards.

I can certainly understand that excessive use of proxies would be annoying, but here are some uses of proxies that I think are unconditionally acceptable:

1) Testing out the cards before you buy them.
2) You were robbed of much of your collection and you're angling for some sympathy while you rebuild, (This happened to one of my friends).
3) You have the cards, but they are in other decks and you don't feel like switching sleeves all the time.

And of course, moderate proxy use after that is acceptable too. If this guy bothers you so much, you should just bring it up, and tell him that it's annoying to have to read a bunch of post-it-notes all the time and trsting his memory of what the card does isn't always nice either. A good compromise would be to tell him to make high-quality proxies if he's so insistent on playing with a ton of proxies all the time. If he's using proxies long-term, than he should use long-term proxies: print-outs with the full card text on them, etc.

 

[orgg]

From what I read, it seems that you don't have a problem as much with the Proxies as the ~KIND~ of proxies he's using. A post-it on a Mountain as a Ruby is annoying.

If he found someone with a good quality color printer and printed out the front of a Ruby and slipped it into a sleeve with a mountain(or, preferably, another card game with a cool design on its back for a stylish boarder), putting a little glue from a gluestick on it to keep it from flying out, it'd be a bit better-- you could read the card and identify it from the artwork.

Proxies I don't use that much, but sometimes I will use 'em for gimmicky decks that I don't want to spend a ton on, as they're for temperary shots of fun...

At that point, who really cares that I'm using all the Duals?

(or, of course, when I'm activly seeking the cards I've proxied and still want to test out the decklist I've dreamed up...)

 

[Oversoul]

In one playgroup, a few people (not the majority) kept using proxies extensively, and without clearing it with opponents beforehand. It's kind of a problem, if you don't want to let them proxy, when several turns into the game they play a proxied card. I came up with a solution in the form of an all proxy deck that had a hard time losing, what with 4 each of the Power 9 (or ten really, since it had four libraries too) and some other goodies...

 

[Istanbul]

I think my problem with that would be more along the lines of, 'Hey, all of those cards are restricted'.