Persist/Sacrifice Deck

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Rakarth, Oct 22, 2008.

  1. Rakarth New Member

    Okay then, a "challenge" to you all :p there has been a suggestion that there's no deck questions been asked here as no one plays magic in real life anymore. Well I do play quite a lot and my deckbuilding does leave something to be required sometimes :D

    With the Jund shard having a few nifty cards with "Whenver another creatre is put into a graveyard..." on them I thought I could combine these with the persist mechanic to create a nice synergistic deck.

    I have only got a basic theme worked out so here it is. The deck is currently BGR and I am pretty certain that I want to stay here. Apart from that the rest is kind of open :p I want to combine persist creatures like Murderous Redcap and Kitchen Finks, sac abilities like that of Scorched Rusalka and then maybe the odd sprinkling of things like Hissing Iguanar, Deathgreeter and Kresh the Bloodbraided.

    So there's the theme, what I don't know is how the deck is going to be structured and how it's going to finish my opponents off (I usually play multiplayer).

    This might be a bit ambiguous so feel free to say "what the hell is it that you want" and I'll be happy to try and explain a bit further, maybe even reply with a basic list of what I've got in mind :)

  2. BigBlue Magic Jones

    I don't know anything about the Jund Shard...

    You might want to look at our WB persist Ajani build for a few ideas... They wouldn't all fit in, but there are some black cards you may want.

    For R, you have Pandemonium (and some other card I heard about which does something similar)...

    Also, There is a Red avatar (expensive, but I think could be cool depending on how it's used) which deals damage to target opponent based on the Power of another creature going to the GY... (Stalking Vengeance)

    With the White build, we are also using the Ajani mechanic of putting +1/+1 counters on creatures. A rules change has made it so a +1/+1 counter will remove itself and a -1/-1 counter from a creature... so it's free to persist again... There are other ways of granting +1/+1 counters which you could investigate to accomplish the same thing.
  3. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    The what?

    What's the "persist mechanic"?
  4. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    Great theme! What format? "Casual"? I'm a little short on time, but to start with I'll share my EDH deck, plenty of sacrificing going on there...

    I think Quillspike + Puppeteer clique (with an outlet and the general in play, heheheh) is my favorite persist trick. Quillspike is pretty much the cornerstone of any persist trick. I think the other one is Bramblewood paragon or something like that that gives +1/+1 upon entry. Infinite life isn't nearly as much fun as "all your creatures are belong to me, and you have none".
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    One of the Shards from Alara; each shard is tri-colored. I think it's RWB? or RBG?

    With persist, if a creature would go to the graveyard from play and doesn't have a -1/-1 ctr, it returns to play instead? with a -1/-1 ctr on it (not sure about the "instead" to make it a replacement effect or if it goes to the graveyard to trigger graveyard effects and then comes back into play)
  6. Rakarth New Member

    Sorry Oversoul :) That's how I felt when I first came on here and asked for deck advice and I got a list of cards that weren't too old but I still had no idea that they even existed :p I had to look up so much on the gatherer...still do as a matter of fact :)

    Persist isn't a replacement though, it's a triggered ability that happens when the creature it's on leaves play

    "When this creature is put into a graveyard from play, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to play under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it"

    And the Jund shard is RGB :)
  7. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Is it a card? :confused:
  8. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    No. It's part of the story line and I don't follow it.
  9. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Check the Storyline forum people! I posted a bunch of links when it was coming out :)
  10. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    If it's part of the storyline, what does it have to do with deckbuilding?
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Because you can build a deck based on a shard's colors, or what cards belong in a shard.
  12. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    Are you nitpicking on purpose? Just build a deck in the colors black, red and green with a lot of sacrifice abilities and creatures with persist.


    P.S. I hope you guys are familiar with Monty Python...
  13. Rakarth New Member

    The plane of Alara was split in to 5 different Shards, each one missing two colours of mana. The story is a little flimsy though, but basically, each shard got an ability that best represents it's culture and people.

    Jund is BGR so no UW and so the main thing is there's no real order to it, it's ruled by dragons, inhabited by viashino and goblins and is a very dog-eat-dog world. Jund's ability is technically Devour although there aren't many creatures with it.

    Devour allows you to sacrifice creatures to the ability as the crerature with devour CIP. If you do then that creature gets a number of +1/+1 counters equal to the number printed after Devour, eg Devour 2. So eat two creatures, get four +1/+1 counters on your new creature. There's also cards like Hissing Iguanar that do something whenever another creature goes to the GY, which in the Iguanar's case is deal 1 damage to target player. This means that you don't just 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 your creatures just to get a bigger creature, you get an effect too.

    Combining this with persist creatures, sac'ing and devour seems an obvious thing to do as most persisters have abilities that trigger on coming into play or they can sac themselves for their ability and come back into play (Kithkin Spellduster) so they can use it another time. Sacrificing usually nets you an effect, like Nantuko Husk pumping itself but in this case you can net yourself a +2/+2 pump as well as sac a Murderous Redcap to get 1 damage to an annoying blocker and get 1 life from Deathgreeter when the Redcap dies.
  14. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Quillspike and Murderous Red Cap would be some good too.

    Blightning is very good too, for 3 you deal 3 damage and 2 discard.....

    Mycoloth is a good creature generator for the devour.
  15. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    No. When I'm nitpicking, you won't have to ask if I'm nitpicking. It will be obvious, mostly because I'll be pointing out something you said as incorrect or inaccurate, even if it's a minor issue or not particularly relevant to the topic at hand. That is, after all, what nitpicking is. Asking questions because another person was vague or esoteric isn't nitpicking. It's asking. You may notice that I am now not using any question marks. This is because my question was answered. Or, I think it was anyway (the significance of "Jund shard" seems to be that the deck is to use black, red, and green as its colors). It's also because I'm now nitpicking, rather than asking a question.

    I will, but first I have to look up some of these persist creatures or something. I'm not familiar with them.
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I like Deathgreeter. I think this deck can totally work, although what I'd really like is something to get more use out of Deathgreeter and those others, not to mention whatever cards you sacrifice creatures to. My first inclination would be mass generation of tokens, but that has no synergy with persist as far as I know. It may be better to get more recursion out of the persist creatures, either by putting +1/+1 counters on them, or by using "Raise Dead" type effects in order to replay them again without -1/-1 counters. I'm not really sure which would be better...
  17. Rakarth New Member

    At the moment I'm at a crossroads in constructing this deck. I've got a nice list of cards from the gatherer and I'm looking at what to cut, what to put in and what the decks curve should be like. From what I've seen so far there's a lot of cheaper creatures and effects that have sac a creature as an additional cost.

    These are cards such as Bone Splinters from the Shards and Diabolic Intent from Planeshift (I think) as well as the Rusalka's from Ravnica. Combined with cheap ish persisters like Safehold Elite, Rendclaw Trow up to Heartmender I can't think of why I'd need to go above 4 mana at all in my cmc. Any thoughts at all anyone?

    There's guys like Deathgreeter, Rockslide Elemental, Hissing Iguanar that get the effect from the sac'ing, the persisters come back and then of course we can have Quillspike to take the counters and turn them back into another bonus of +3/+3.

    There are even creatures like Thunder-Thrash Elder that have large Devour abilities and only cost 3 mana. I've also taken a look at Misfortune which seems like an interesting option as the deck is primarily aggro focused so either they take the pain, or I get a +1/+1 counter on all my guys. If played on the right time after a mass sacrifice when all my persisters come back it could be perfect :D There's also cards like Thrive and Titania's Boon for mass counters.

    I'm just throwing ideas out there at the moment, I'm not really sure where I'm going with it :p I've tried to include links for the stuff people might not know too :)

    Just as a point about your mass generation of tokens Oversoul, take a look at Flourishing Defenses. There is some synergy with persist :) it'll trigger whenever a guy comes back into play with a -1/-1 counter on it so I get a free victim...err....token volunteer for sacrificing/blocking or whatever.

    As you can see there's a lot of carsd floating around and I don't really know what to put in :eek: there's even some 7 cmc cards, Hamletback Goliath and Vicious Shadows although I've pretty much eliminated them as too much.

  18. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    How do you use Raise Dead type effects to replay the creature? I guess, maybe between them hitting the GY and the trigger going off, but that seems tough to pull off regulalrly.

    I think the recursion is the best bet. Deathgreeter is good, maybe using that life gain for something? Card Draw or +1/+1 counters somehow?

    Quillspike is a definite 4 of..... wow I like that card....
  19. Rakarth New Member

    By Raise Dead I assumed he meant Dread Return, Zombify, Footsteps of the Goryo, things like that. Quillspike is ludicrous. Combined with Devoted Druid it's an infinite combo and it shouldn't be that easy to make an infinite combo :p they even pointed it out during the release of shadowmoor on

    I don't know about a 4 of though, I was thinking mayb three as I didn't want the deck to depend on him. In my play group he gets nuked quickly because he's not worth leaving around to have him pester you next turn.

    I was thinking of using Fecundity for card drawing, or Skullmulcher, one of the new Devour cards that draws a card for each creature you sac to it's ability when it CIP.
  20. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Maybe, I'm missing something, but aren't these sorceries? How do you use them on persist creatures before the persist trigger resolves?

    Deathgreeter would work with Phyrexian Arena.... life for cards....

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