Parallel Thoughts

[Mikeymike]

I've been looking more and more at this card and I really dig it. It is completely breakable, as you can get around its slow factor.

Parallel Thoughts
Enchantment
3UU SC(R)
When ~this~ comes into play, search your library for seven cards, remove them from the game in a face-down pile, and shuffle that pile. Then shuffle your library. ; If you would draw a card, you may instead put the top card of the pile you removed into your hand.

If you have fewer than 7 cards in your library, remove them all. [Scourge FAQ 2003/05/30]
You cannot look at the face down cards. [Scourge FAQ 2003/05/30]
You can choose to take the top card from the pile (and not draw) even if there are no cards in the pile. This allows you to skip draws. [Scourge FAQ 2003/05/30]

The way I see it...it's a Demonic Tutor for 7. You can stack this thing with 7 cards of your choice - basically any combo you want to run you can get EVERY piece you need sitting right there. Plus it is completely optional when you want to draw from the PT pile, meaning you are not married to it if something better comes along.

I'm not even going to go into what you can get for the kill, I just want to focus on certain card-drawing cards that allow you to take serious advantage of this thing.

Teferi's Puzzle Box - Make sure one of the 7 cards you PT for is a Tinker....get in 1 activation of the Box, cycle your hand for a big draw from PT and Tinker out the Box for whatever so you don't lose your hand. If you don't want to play Tinker, try Claws of Gix.

Time Twister/Time Spiral/Windfall/Wheel of Fortune/Dragon Mage/Diminishing Returns/Memory Jar - 7 cards of your choice, well maybe not Windfall but you get the point.

Brainstorm - Ancestral Recall that you can run 4 of. You get to put the chaff on top of your library and draw 3 quality cards.

Sylvan Library has a similar effect.

I don't know, I just see this thing causing so much ruckus in Type 1 since it can be so broken with all the broken cards.

 

[Nightstalkers]

Grafted Skullcap
Ensnaring Bridge
Parallel Thoughts
+
Mill deck

Any takers?

 

[train]

Blue... not surprised - but CS is gone- and that's cool!...

 

[Spiderman]

don't know, I just see this thing causing so much ruckus in Type 1 since it can be so broken with all the broken cards.

You ought to email rakso about his opinion on it...

 

[Rooser]

It costs five and doesn't win the game itself, so its out of type 1. If you let it get disenchanted, (Or even bounced), you shoot yourself in the foot by removing seven cards you wanted to draw from the game.

It's not that good.

In fact, its smartest use would be to thin 7 lands out of your deck after you've got enough land, that way you're only drawing spells from your real library, and you've gota bank of lands to draw from should somebody destroy all of your lands. Plus the bonus of not being able to get milled is cool.

You came up with some cool combos, but in the end I don't quite think its worth it. I'd rather spend my fifth turn casting a threat.

 

[Mikeymike]

Originally posted by Rooser
It costs five and doesn't win the game itself, so its out of type 1. If you let it get disenchanted, (Or even bounced), you shoot yourself in the foot by removing seven cards you wanted to draw from the game.

I totally see your point, but I also feel in type 1 broken (Moxen, Lotus, Academy,etc.) you can get 5 mana extremely quickly - like turn 1 or 2, and turn 3 regularly. Plus enchantment hate in CompT1 is really only found in Naturalize, D'Chant and Counters - a lot of that hate is reserved for artifact killers (Meltdown, Gorilla Shaman, Karn, etc.). Having those cards removed is a risky proposition, but all combo decks are inherently risky in some shape or form. Is it worth the risk?, not sure.

I'm not a competitive Type 1 player, so I doubt I'd know the best way to milk this sucker. I'd be too afraid to try this out in our MP group where Encht-killing flows like air.

For gits and shiggles I'll try building a combo deck with this thing though.

 

[Mikeymike]

Originally posted by Mikeymike
Plus enchantment hate in CompT1 is really only found in Naturalize, D'Chant and Counters - a lot of that hate is reserved for artifact killers (Meltdown, Gorilla Shaman, Karn, etc.).

Forgot about Red Elemental Blast, . Oh well.

 

[Nightstalkers]

In my mind, Parallel Thoughts is just another card drawing/ card searching engine for your deck.

 

[train]

I want my opponent to use Parallel thoughts...

"I'm running green or white!..."

 

[Nightstalkers]

Hmm...

build a G/W deck.

Upwelling and Disenchant go good together...

hey wait! just build a Green deck with Naturalize. duh!

if you don't like you opponent using your upwelling, just take it away from the group

"Your floating 16 mana and your playing red... I'll play this creature and naturalize to empty me pool. your at 4."

 

[train]

... and since concordat crossroads is out... I'll attack with Blastoderm now...

 

[Rooser]

I think the advocates of this card are forgetting that you don't stack the 7 cards however you want. Even if you're using it to build a two-card combo, you're stuffing 4 copies of one card in there and 3 copies of another and then taking your chances on your "draws". You'll get overloaded on your own combo. And if you drop down to like 2 copies of the two cards, then you're really waiting on your draws.

Okay, yes, you could run some of the combos you mentioned earlier to slam into those seven cards, but then guess what, you're running a combo to get your other combo. Sounds kinda silly to me.

I think better uses of the card are to set aside 7 of a certain type of spell so you can call upon it wheneever you need to. I offered the land idea already, but I just thought it might be cool to set aside 7 counterspells, or 7 creature-kills. You need one of those in your hand? just draw from there instead of your regular deck.

If you approach Parallel Thoughts as a combo builder, you're approaching it all wrong.

 

[Spiderman]

Yeah, but Mikeymike (since he was the starter of the thread) listed ways to get multiple draws and thus dig through the pile in a couple of "spells" or turns, if not 1 like Wheel of Fortune. So you're not really taking a "chance" with drawing one card at a time in a turn...

 

[Rooser]

I also said this:
Okay, yes, you could run some of the combos you mentioned earlier to slam into those seven cards, but then guess what, you're running a combo to get your other combo. Sounds kinda silly to me.

 

[Spiderman]

None of those card drawers are combos inofthemselves... the Thoughts just help them dig better.

 

[Mikeymike]

Originally posted by Rooser
I think the advocates of this card are forgetting that you don't stack the 7 cards however you want.

Nope, I'm aware of this - which is why My main combos listed are with cards that get you 7 immediately. Brainstorm is more of a casual thing.

Okay, yes, you could run some of the combos you mentioned earlier to slam into those seven cards, but then guess what, you're running a combo to get your other combo. Sounds kinda silly to me.

This is a very good point (combo saturation that is), but I don't think it is an issue with the Thoughts for a couple of reasons:
1 - The Thoughts combo requires you to have 1 of the 'draw 7' cards in your hand, which in combolicious Type 1 is extremely possible if not probable (especially if you build your deck with more in mind).
2 - Thoughts itself is a Tutor for an immediate win. You need 1 relatively simple combo which is 2 cards - it gets the 'killer' combo and all its parts for you immediately.
3 - You can probably run it maindeck as a back-up and not as a primary component to your 'killer' combo. This would be a guess though.

My biggest fear remains REB.

I think better uses of the card are to set aside 7 of a certain type of spell so you can call upon it wheneever you need to. I offered the land idea already, but I just thought it might be cool to set aside 7 counterspells, or 7 creature-kills. You need one of those in your hand? just draw from there instead of your regular deck.

That's actually a very good idea. Kind of spooky for your opponents.

 

[Rooser]

Well, at least you're smart enough to know that Red Elemental Blast needs to be feared in Type 1.

I guess I'm seeming kinda dour on this one, but I'm a goofy casual gamer at heart. So here's the deal:

I'll stop talking crap about the card if you work real hard on a decklist to prove me wrong. It can be a dream decklist with p9 and such. That's a better way to resolve this than me being grumpy. Let my doubts fuel your creativity! If it's a goofy card, I'd like to be proven wrong about its playability!

 

[Mikeymike]

Feel free to keep talking crap about it - I don't mind. That's what this forum is for.

This will be a stretch for me as well, b/c I'm a casual gamer also. My mind doesn't usually think in that manner.

But here's a preliminary decklist (Thoughts incorporated in a deck belonging to my friend):

Kill - 6
3 Underworld Dreams
3 Teferi's Puzzle Box - Also a Draw 7

'Draw 7' Cards - 6
1 Memory Jar
1 Time Twister
1 Time Spiral
1 Windfall (close enough)
2 Diminishing Returns

Dirty Cheaters - 9
3 Parallel Thoughts
1 Tinker
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Hurkyll's Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor

Counters - 9
4 FoW
3 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection

Mana - 30
4 Dark Ritual
7 Sol-Lotus-Moxen
1 Mana Vault
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Underground River

--------
The reason I went with an Underworld Dreams kill is because of synergy. PT - wants you to draw 7, and if you do so with a UDreams out they take 7...and if a Puzzle Box is out they take another 9 (draw step timing of the Puzzle Box).

Depending on your setup you'd PT for different stuff in various scenarios. Mostly it'd look something like this - given that I've got a draw 7 handy.

1 Underworld Dreams/Teferi's Puzzle Box (assuming I've already got one or the other out)
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker (to get another P.Box or a Memory Jar for immediate win)
1 FoW
1 Hurkyll's Recall (FoW pitch or mana generation)
1 Yawgmoth's will/Time something
1 Dark Ritual/Black Lotus (Depends on mana amount)

 

[Rooser]

You just might have shut my mouth.

I'm curious how that runs. Is it possible you could play this against me on apprentice?

 

[Mikeymike]

Haven't been motivated for the learning process it would require to setup.

But I could be convinced I suppose...I do have to give you fair warning though.
1 - With the week ahead I don't know when I'll actually have time to install this on my home machine and learn it.
2 - When I actually build and play this thing I expect the turns to take about 15 mins apiece...its one of those decks.