Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by DÛke, Nov 17, 2000.

  1. DÛke Memento Mori


    Yeah, Chaos, you should write a book or something, I'll buy it, trust me. I don't read at all, but I like "weird" stuff like this (or that).

    I especially liked the part when you said that God is not something somewhere, but it is all around us and everywhere. I didn't understand it (I still don't to a degree), but it really does make you think even more. Good job!
  2. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Does god exist?

    Do I believe in god?
    No, I find it harder to believe in a creative entity than I do to comprehend that the universe sprang into being as a result of some natural phenomenon we have not yet discovered (given that we know so little).

    I would certainly go so far as to say that the belief systems of humanity are NOT related in any way to the god who does or does not exist. The gods who humans follow are simply adult fairy tales told to calm the ignorant masses when the crops failed or the river ran dry, or disease struck, or alternatively when the crops were bountiful and the lambs plentiful. That the belief in a god is an everpresent in human culutres around the world shows precisly how natural it is for humanity to develop entirely illogical and irrational belief systems when confronted by the unknown.
    Religion (as it is entirely separate from the discussion of a creative entity) is simply the cynical control method that was in operation prior to the development of feudalism and capitalism. That this control method continues to dig it`s claws into society to this day is a testament to just how cynically it manipulates the fear of the unknown in thase base of the human psyche.

    God = ?
    Religion = bad
  3. Multani Treetrunk Guy

    When involving religion and politics:

    "If a lie is big enough, and told enough times, then it becomes the truth."

    And that is all I have to say on the subject.
  4. Firestorm Veteran CPA Member

    Whatever satisfies the soul is truth.
    -Walt Whitman
  5. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    DÛke: Cool, thanks.

    Gizmo: That's precisely the reason I prefer my version of "god." It doesn't care what we do; thus, I don't suffer in the way that so many of the pious seem to enjoy.

    Multani: Well, it comes to carry the weight of truth, but is never the truth.

    Firestorm: Word. Whitman's da man.
  6. Duel Has Less Posts Than Spiderman

    Do I believe in god: in a word, no.

    I don't believe in god because I have yet to see anything to convince me that he does exist. I have read the bible (3 times, though I admit to skipping leviticus twice) and have educated myself in several religons, because religon seemed to be a big issue, but I have yet to find evidence (Much less proof) that there is a god.

    I am not agnostic either. I don't believe we are watched over. I don't believe I am important. I gave up being the center of the universe when I found out the sun didn't circle around the earth.

    So, why live? Read Martin Buber. Read Camut. Read some of the great existentialists. Finding reasons to live is important, because we are not given them. In a way I echo the Whitman quote "Whatever satisfies the soul is truth" because if Religon gives you your reason to live, I will refuse to argue a point with you. Life is not worth beliefs.

    The divinity of man is a point much argued for, mostly because everyone wants to believe they are divine, in some small way at least. I have yet to see proof on this either way. In a way, though, I am still unswayed, because there can never be proof AGAINST the existance of god. There can never be proof against anything. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Waiting for Godot?

    Oh, and a quote for you to ponder:

    Matthew, 27:46
    "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried * with a loud voice, saying * , Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that * is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken * me?"
  7. Firestorm Veteran CPA Member

    Life is not worth beliefs.

    I have to disagree with you there. Millions of people have given their lives in the past for their belief's. Think Martyrs, Crusades, fighting over the Holy Land. For a better example think American Revolution. If they hadn't given their lives for their beliefs of freedom, we would not be living in a country as great as it is now.

    So, why live?

    I believe ice cream and cake is the answer to that.
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    we're on the same wavelength...

    Why am I pondering that quote?
  9. Landkiller CPA Menace

    And now : Questions

    If you knew everything, could you really know that you knew everything? Wouldn't you have doubt? Don't some things seem impossible? Can you believe in something greater than yourself? Can God?
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Maybe it's just my perspective, but if I knew everything, I KNOW everything. So there'd be no doubt.

    Now, knowing everything and believing in something greater can be inclusive with each other. If, however, when you say "greater", you mean "somebody knowing more", then it just can't happen. Since you know everything, you know there can't be someone who knows "more".

    Again, that's my way of thinking. It just seems like one of those "logical fallacies" or whatever the term is, what you're trying to show as a paradox.
  11. Bob Idiot

    That's all I have to say.
    I'm Christian.

    Oh, yeah.
    Satan Sucks.

    [Orgg's note: I echo 2/3 of your sentament, However, six hundred and sixty six presses of "enter" has no point and is annoying to scroll down. don't do it again, I don't care if your doing it for humour or something unconcience-just twenty is enough to space down.]
  12. manchot_13 New Member


    This is the simplest way i can explain it. We have a natural desire to know reality. but we only have so much knowledge, so we make stuff up (mysticism) to fill in the blanks...

    Have you noticed that through history, as our knowledge base has grown, god has shrunk. We used to need 200 plus gods to compensate all that missing reality, now we only need 1. I maintain, then, that god, just like every other religion of the past, is merely something we made up. Some christians actually have the nerve to claim that because i can't explain every little nook and cranny of evolution, it must be false and creationism must be true because i can't explain it any other way. This is absolute crap.

    Some christians sya they believe in god because of some feeling within them. to them i say, "no you don't, you believe in him because you parents [or someone else] told you to." I might add that at one point you also believed in santa clause and the easter bunny. people are actually willing to believe almost anything in order to feel they comprehend reality. Why do you think cults are so popular? but then rationalization kicks in and people start to realize they don't really understand everything, but rather than admit this, they create things to convince themselves they believe all this garbage. hmm... what if god doesn't really.. oh wait... pits of burning sulfur... Hosana hey sanna...

    (andy says hi)

    if religion were merely mysticism, it would be ok, it wouldn't be good, but it wouldn't be quite the destructive force it is todya. So, another equation:


    Perhaps i should define what i mean by crap. if a religion consisted merely of saying "i believe i was created by god" it would be harmless... but whenever we start with religion we get into the "god says this... this is bad... here is an entire book of stuff you should and shouldn't do... oh, btw, here are some select groups to hate... and especially anyone who disagrees with us" This "morality" is what i called Crap. in fact, some of it is actually good, but, it mixes itself in with everything else, and when you're done, it comes out a large pile of BS. Lets look a few examples of crap:

    1. Homosexuality is evil, and homosexuals go to hell
    2. If you are raped, you should marry your rapist and continue living as if nothing happened
    3. Destruction of property is OK if you're really mad
    4. Being self-interested is bad.
    9999999999999999999999999999999999999999. And don't forget, Hitler was a christian!

    This is why religion is bad, because it attaches a set of ideals to something that all humans need, a form of mysticism (and the reason these ideals get attached here is because no one would be stupid enough to believe them otherwise).

    I realize that some of my views may offend people. I've given this a great deal of thought, and this has been my decision:

    If you are actually stupid enough to believe that i'm evil, jaded, unclean, or going to hell because of my sexual orientation, then i really could give less than a !@#$ about whether or not this offends you. If, on the other hand, they attach themselves to a religion, but are smart enough to think for themselves on a few, select issues, then they have my deepest pity, and perhaps someday they will come to a better realization of reality.

    Notice what i didn't say:

    1. You are wrong.
    2. I am right.
    3. I hate (any person or group of people here)

    if you concluded any of the 3 above things, they were not my intent.

    Yes, i know this is an incredibly long rant, and it has yet to directly answer the question posed:

    No, in my mind there is not a God that created the universe, however, i believe god is more of a goal of evolution, the point for which existence exists. In a world that follows perfect laws, there is no need for a god, and in fact, he contradicts the laws as we currently understand them.

    I do maintain this: Life has a purpose.

    I conclude this as follows:

    At least some of our actions have purpose.
    Life is nothing but the sum of our actions.
    Therefore, life has purpose.

    I will not shut up and patiently await someone to tell me i'm stupid. 10... 9... 8...

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