Opinions:Do or Die

[Griffith_se]

Do or Die
1B, Sorcery, Rare
Separate all creatures target player controls into two face-up piles. Destroy all creatures in the
pile of that player's choice. They can't be regenerated.
Illus. Christopher Moeller (102/350)

 

[Killer Joe]

Can one of the piles be empty?

 

[Apollo]

Sure, but that'd be pretty dumb, because they'd just choose that pile and nothing would die.

 

[Hetemti]

That card seems overpowered to me...not outrageously overpowered...but still. Shoud be 1BB or something.

 

[Mundungu]

If you target yourself you cheaply bury all your creatures.

Living death anyone ???
Academy rector or any leave play ability creature ??

Get creatures in the GY for the Avatar of woe ???

I think it has a lot of potential and is very versatile.

very funny for sure ..

At last some interaction between players

 

[Purple_jester]

It will be an extremely frustrating card. I thinkof this as a seriously overpowered version of Diabolic Edict, one of the favorite black slayers of players everywhere. This is Diabolic Edict 2000 Deluxe Edition, slightly slower (sorcery), but much more effective.

Your opponent will get a headache when you cast this, splitting his forces in two and having him decide what to save. And, it's not targetted, meaning there is potential of eliminating untargettables like Blastoderm (though it's not a guarantee). Also, as Mundungu so graciously pointed out, it can serve as a utility card for the player himself. I play with 4 Diabolic Edicts in my black deck, so I wouldn't mind replacing a few of them with this card.

 

[dw51688]

I have to think this over, I don't quite get it.

 

[mogg bomber]

This is quite a good card, cheap and versatile. In limited it's amazing, and in constructed there are many options for decks using this(use it only for creature removal, or for graveyard recursion too? Living Death in extended with this? An Avatar of Woe deck? CIP effects, with graveyard recursion and Do or Die?) The many possiblities for this make it a very interesting card.

 

[Cateran Emperor]

Hmmm, cool. I'm not quite sure how to take this one, but it's not negatively to be sure...

 

[The Magic Jackal]

It's not as good as everyone makes it out to be.

Your opponent has 1 creature: the lose nothing
2: their worst creature
3: Depends , If they have 3 weenies you get their best one, but if they have a real monster, you get the two crappy cards
4: this is where the card is actually good. You probably get his two weaker creatures, but you may only get one, or 3- wee!
5 or more: The card is now really mana efficient, but you opponent will still have a good size army after this. If they have 5 or more creatures, your probably losing the way anyway. Why not use massacre, forced march, ect. Something that will kill most of their creaturs? If massacre or forced march won't take out most of their creatures then you have a major problem: scoop and move on to game 2.

So this card is good in one scenerio- your opponent has 4 creatures. What a great card (not).

 

[Volradon]

Lets say i am playing a combo deck lets see even if they put the key card in a pile by itself i will still take it it should have been facdown piles (as in targeted player cant see it)
Volradon

 

[Istanbul]

*Severely* strong. Here's another way to think about it:

Do or Die 1B
Sorcery
Target player sacrifices half of the creatures he or she controls, rounded down.

This card can totally *break* a creature stall, and can cut fast creature rushes down to a manageable pace.

 

[Gizmo]

Purple_Jester
"It will be an extremely frustrating card. I thinkof this as a seriously overpowered version of Diabolic Edict, one of the favorite black slayers of players everywhere. This is Diabolic Edict 2000 Deluxe Edition, slightly slower (sorcery), but much more effective."

Disagree.

They have one creature - it`s not a Diabolic Edict
They have two creatures - it`s a slow Diabolic Edict
They have three creatures - it`s a good Diabolic Edict
They have four creatures - it`s a really good Diabolic Edict

Hmm, when I put it like that I think I agree. I just realised that on three creatures it`s basically 'bury target monster' and it becomes good. If it were still just an Edict on 3 creatures it would be bad, but I think I`ve changed my mind.

Okay, it`s pretty good.
But still not as good as Diabolic Edict.
Not an automatic pick, but it definately vies for a spot alongside Vendetta. I just wonder if perhaps your opponent will simply kill you with a single monster knowing you can`t fight back - always a good strategy to begin with.

 

[Purple_jester]

I've found the place for Do or Die in my decks. It replaces half of my Vendettas. After playing with Vendetta for some time, I notice that I am hesistant to play it with anything over 3 toughness. When I'm down to 10 or less life, I will even balk at removing a 3 toughness creature unless it was absolutely necessary (like Magetta). Thus, I end up using Vendetta for annoying weenies. Since the thing I hate the most about weenies is swarms (Squirrels, Saprollings or Rebels, anyone) then Do or Die is an excellent supplement.

Playing this card alongside Edict seems to be a good idea. I'll agree that for sheer usefulness Edict is a much better card. Unfortunately, those who play Type 2 won't have Edict. But playing two or more of Do or Die next to 4 Snuff Outs isn't so bad, I would think. And it will break mid to late game creature stalemates at a cheap cost.

I originally though that this would have been balanced at 4cc, and severely undercosted at 2cc. But upon reflection, 2cc is apparently the reason why it will be played. At 4 or even 3cc, I don't see it being of much use, when you could just play Massacre instead.

Gizmo, since we're on the subject of Vendetta, can I ask a question? From a professional point of view, would you have preferred if it removed the target creature from the game (thus tranforming it into a black Swords) instead of just burying it? I realize this will remove any graveyard-manipulation options, but would this be better or worse than the printed version?

 

[Darsh]

I have got to get 4 of these babies! This thing is almost broken in multiplayer where there is always one guy with 20+ creatures ready to overrun everyone. And that doesn't even cover the synergy with living death and other graveyard recursion cards. You could also see which creatures they value more important which could give you the edge in deciding their later moves. ALL THIS FOR ONLY 2 MANA!!!

 

[Gizmo]

Almost certainly you would rather remove your opponent`s creature from the game. It avoids effects like that of Nether Spirit. Usually you would be more interested in stopping your opponent from using his creatures than in recycling them for yourself so removing stuff is A Good Thing.

BTW
When I was building for 15-card Hightlander I had a really good Nether Spirit deck and wanted to use Attrition but didn`t feel I could justify it because my only creature was the Spirit otherwise I couldn`t recur it from the graveyard.
It`s the only time in my life I`ve wanted to play with Cyclopean Mummy.

 

[arhar]

YES!!!!
The Almighty Mummy CAN be broken! I told ya! I told ya! I knew that a long time ago, and no one would believe me! And I was right all along! Now would you let me go! These walls are closing on me! Why the straightjacket? Arrrrrrrgh!

 

[Spiderman]

In 15 card Highlander....

LOL

 

[Zadok001]

Arhar's moment of glory in the sun...

Personally, I'm starting to come off my 'high' as far as this card is concerned. I thought it was damn near broken, and fairly insistant that the '1' in the upper right hand corner was really a '4.' Then it would be overcosted, and therefore the work of WotC. Woo-hoo! On reconsidering this, I've concluded that the card is _slightly_ better than Vendetta, but isn't the same type of card, i.e., the two should not be replacing each other, at least not in my decks.

I think Do or Die compares more admirably to Wrath of God, punishing your opponent for overextending to get past your defenses. A series of blockers that won't die in combat forces your opponent to play out more creatures over a couple turns to work past you, letting Do or Die take over as one of the best removal spells you can get at that casting cost. In order for it to be good, you need to force overextension, and that's best done on the defensive; you play blockers so your opponent must go _past_ you with more creatures.

Vendetta, on the other hand, fits aggressive decks. You play down _your_ attack force, and your opponent must drop blockers. You blow up a blocker, and bust through for a kill. While the aspect of overextension is similar, you, as the aggressive player, usually don't want to overextend yourself (or else Do or Die wrecks YOU). Thus, you play only one or two fast critters, and make your opponent deal. Chances are, your opponent drops two blockers, leaving you to Vendetta one and bust through.

Of course, this comparasion is based off the theory of aggro vs. control, and one the idea that, when actually playing, games where Vendetta is actually played against Do or Die would be rare.

But, on general princibles, the two are in direct opposition. One, like Wrath, clears the board and punishes overextension, gaining card advantage in a control deck. The other takes out blockers while keeping _you_ from needing to overextend, letting you bust through the last few damage...

Am I screwy 'cause it's 7:00 AM? Or am I making something vaguely resembling sense?

 

[Spiderman]

You're screwy AND you're vaguely making sense?