R
Rakamir
Guest
Zvi has a build up at Brianburst Premium, which most agree is just terrible. Too few lands, deck dies to Goblins, especially postgame when Sulfuric Vortex comes in. Anyone have a game plan for Goblins?
R
Rakamir
Guest
The deck below is what I would have played at GP Detroit. I can publish now as one of the deck’s inventors is playing a similar build in the fourth round at GP Detroit now, and there is no longer a need for secrecy.
This history of this anti-aggro BW Control (as opposed to Zvi’s anti-control BW Control at Premium) is as follows:
My good buddy Evan Blake of Florida sent a decklist to me a week ago. Worked on hard my himself and his friend Chris (the Detroit player with this deck) for a solid month, I could find nothing wrong with the main deck, though play testing showed me the 2nd Visara would be better off being a 25th land, an Unholy Grotto.
After reading Zvi’s articles on the strengths and weaknesses of BW Control, I completely redid the sideboard, save 2 of the 3 Wipe Cleans Evan/Chris had. I also provide sideboard subs, and by all means be critical. The subs are a result of reading what Zvi thought were the strengths/weaknesses of this archetype in the metagame, and actual playtesting on my part.
Note: this archetype will change considerably to adapt to the ever changing metagame all season, as good control decks always do. But this is a strong deck, and much play testing needs to done first before playing if you wish to understand all its synergies. Please don’t just net deck and expect to do well, unless you’re playing cheese like Goblins.
REMOVAL.dec
Pre-Detroit Last Build July 12, 2003
OnBC
by Evan Blake/Chris, tuned by Rakamir
4 Exalted Angel
3 Twisted Abomination
3 Cruel Revival
3 Infest
2 Eternal Dragon
2 Graveborn Muse
2 Pacifism
4 Renewed Faith
1 Visara the Dreadful
4 Akroma’s Vengeance
4 Wing Shards
3 Smother
1 Unholy Grotto
3 Barren Moor
3 Secluded Steppe
8 Swamp
10 Plains
SB:
1 Graveborn Muse
2 Head Games
4 Withered Wretch
1 Cruel Revival
1 Smother
1 Infest
3 Wipe Clean
2 Decree of Pain
SUBS
GOBLINS
-1 Visara -2 Graveborn Muse
+1 Smother +1 Infest +1 Cruel Revival
ZOMBIES (bidding)
-2 Graveborn Muse -3 Cruel Revival -1 Eternal Dragon
+2 Head Games +4 Withered Wretch
BEASTS
-1 Exalted Angel -2 Graveborn Muse
+1 Cruel Revival +2 Head Games
MIRROR or MWC
-3 Smother -3 Infest -2 Exalted Angel -1 Renewed Faith
+2 Head Games +4 Withered Wretch +2 Decree of Pain +1 Graveborn Muse
SLIDE
-3 Smother -3 Infest -2 Pacifism
+3 Wipe Clean +4 Withered Wretch
This history of this anti-aggro BW Control (as opposed to Zvi’s anti-control BW Control at Premium) is as follows:
My good buddy Evan Blake of Florida sent a decklist to me a week ago. Worked on hard my himself and his friend Chris (the Detroit player with this deck) for a solid month, I could find nothing wrong with the main deck, though play testing showed me the 2nd Visara would be better off being a 25th land, an Unholy Grotto.
After reading Zvi’s articles on the strengths and weaknesses of BW Control, I completely redid the sideboard, save 2 of the 3 Wipe Cleans Evan/Chris had. I also provide sideboard subs, and by all means be critical. The subs are a result of reading what Zvi thought were the strengths/weaknesses of this archetype in the metagame, and actual playtesting on my part.
Note: this archetype will change considerably to adapt to the ever changing metagame all season, as good control decks always do. But this is a strong deck, and much play testing needs to done first before playing if you wish to understand all its synergies. Please don’t just net deck and expect to do well, unless you’re playing cheese like Goblins.
REMOVAL.dec
Pre-Detroit Last Build July 12, 2003
OnBC
by Evan Blake/Chris, tuned by Rakamir
4 Exalted Angel
3 Twisted Abomination
3 Cruel Revival
3 Infest
2 Eternal Dragon
2 Graveborn Muse
2 Pacifism
4 Renewed Faith
1 Visara the Dreadful
4 Akroma’s Vengeance
4 Wing Shards
3 Smother
1 Unholy Grotto
3 Barren Moor
3 Secluded Steppe
8 Swamp
10 Plains
SB:
1 Graveborn Muse
2 Head Games
4 Withered Wretch
1 Cruel Revival
1 Smother
1 Infest
3 Wipe Clean
2 Decree of Pain
SUBS
GOBLINS
-1 Visara -2 Graveborn Muse
+1 Smother +1 Infest +1 Cruel Revival
ZOMBIES (bidding)
-2 Graveborn Muse -3 Cruel Revival -1 Eternal Dragon
+2 Head Games +4 Withered Wretch
BEASTS
-1 Exalted Angel -2 Graveborn Muse
+1 Cruel Revival +2 Head Games
MIRROR or MWC
-3 Smother -3 Infest -2 Exalted Angel -1 Renewed Faith
+2 Head Games +4 Withered Wretch +2 Decree of Pain +1 Graveborn Muse
SLIDE
-3 Smother -3 Infest -2 Pacifism
+3 Wipe Clean +4 Withered Wretch
L
Lotus Mox
Guest
That build looks pretty good, I'd try it out if I weren't a bit bored of OnBC now. (OLS drafts are fun 
)
)
R
Rakamir
Guest
Before you test the BW above, try fixing the mana mix a bit, as the above has a tendency toward color screw, and by that I mean black is usally screwed. I’d recommend one of the two below:
2 Grand Coliseum
2 Secluded Steppe
2 Barren Moor
1 Unholy Grotto
9 Plains
9 Swamp
Or
4 Grand Coliseum
1 Unholy Grotto
10 Plains
10 Swamp
Other issues:
The boarded lone Muse might be better off being a Call to the Grave. I don’t like CttG in aggro decks, but it is both an enemy card of this deck (and moreso train's RW as we have Twisteds and Muses) and a card a control deck with Black can use as well (obviously, you‘ll have to kill with Twisteds and Muses). Dave Williams points this out in his article re his B/u ZombieBidding/ReadtheRunes deck in the Star City’s GP Detroit coverage article. Which brings up another issue….
Should the main deck Pacifisms be something else, such as 2 Withered Wretch or 2 Wipe Cleans ? Patriarch’s Bidding is another enemy card, and having no answers game one entails a certain amount of risk, hence the Wretch suggestion.
On the other hand, CttG and the Slide enchantments are another risk, and backing up Vengeances with 2 Wipe Cleans might be wise. Train does this in his RW Control build, even though he only mains one Vengeance.
2 Grand Coliseum
2 Secluded Steppe
2 Barren Moor
1 Unholy Grotto
9 Plains
9 Swamp
Or
4 Grand Coliseum
1 Unholy Grotto
10 Plains
10 Swamp
Other issues:
The boarded lone Muse might be better off being a Call to the Grave. I don’t like CttG in aggro decks, but it is both an enemy card of this deck (and moreso train's RW as we have Twisteds and Muses) and a card a control deck with Black can use as well (obviously, you‘ll have to kill with Twisteds and Muses). Dave Williams points this out in his article re his B/u ZombieBidding/ReadtheRunes deck in the Star City’s GP Detroit coverage article. Which brings up another issue….
Should the main deck Pacifisms be something else, such as 2 Withered Wretch or 2 Wipe Cleans ? Patriarch’s Bidding is another enemy card, and having no answers game one entails a certain amount of risk, hence the Wretch suggestion.
On the other hand, CttG and the Slide enchantments are another risk, and backing up Vengeances with 2 Wipe Cleans might be wise. Train does this in his RW Control build, even though he only mains one Vengeance.
R
Rakamir
Guest
Brandon Charnesky's Detroit Top 64 BW Control Deck:
4 Temple of the False God
4 Grand Coliseum
11 Plains
7 Swamp
---------------------
26 land
4 Silver Knight
2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
3 Eternal Dragon
2 TWisted Abomination
2 Exalted Angel
1 Withered Wretch
------------------------
14 creatures
4 Wing Shards
4 Smother
4 Akroma's Vengeance
4 Decree of Justice
3 Decree of Pain
1 Wipe Clean
---------------------
20 other spells
Board:
3 Wipe Clean
3 Rain of Blades
2 Withered Wretch
2 Head Games
1 Blackmail
1 Decree of Pain
1 Oblation
1 Cabal Interrogator
1 Dragon Scales
Sam Gomersall also mixes his sugar white and brown:
10 Swamp
8 Plains
2 Secluded Steppe
2 Barren Moor
2 Temple of the False God
2 Grand Coliseum
----------------------
26 land
3 Eternal Dragon
4 Twisted Abomination
2 Graveborn Muse
-------------------------
9 creatures
2 Wipe Clean
4 Pacifism
4 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Infest
4 Decree of Pain
4 Smother
2 Head Games
2 Cruel Revival
---------------------
25 other spells
Board:
4 Silver Knight
2 Withered Wretch
2 Wipe Clean
4 Wing Shards
1 Visara the Dreadful
2 Call to the Grave
Lance Bohac felt 23 lands to be sufficient:
1 Unholy Grotto
4 Grand Coliseum
9 Swamp
9 Plains
----------------
23 land
1 Withered Wretch
4 Exalted Angel
3 Twisted Abomination
2 Undead Gladiator
3 Eternal Dragon
---------------------
13 creatures
4 Akroma's Vengeance
4 Wing Shards
2 Infest
2 Decree of Justice
3 Smother
4 Renewed Faith
3 Decree of Pain
2 Pacifism
-------------------
24 other spells
Board:
3 Graveborn Muse
2 Withered Wretch
2 Visara the Dreadful
2 Disciple of Grace
3 Silver Knight
2 Wipe Clean
1 Demystify
Chris Fennell went the 24 land route:
2 Unholy Grotto
10 Plains
8 Swamp
1 Barren Moor
1 Secluded Steppe
2 Temple of the False God
--------------------------------
24 land
4 Exalted Angel
2 Eternal Dragon
4 Twisted Abomination
2 Visara the Dreadful
1 Withered Wretch
2 Graveborn Muse
-----------------------------
15 creatures
4 Renewed Faith
1 Decree of Pain
3 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Wing Shards
3 Blackmail
4 Infest
3 Cruel Revival
-------------------
21 other spells
Board:
3 Windborn Muse
1 Decree of Pain
3 Head Games
4 Wipe Clean
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Withered Wretch
1 Circle of Solace
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Could this be the Chris of Evan/Chris fame? I do not know, but apparently he changed his deck a bit, if so.
4 Temple of the False God
4 Grand Coliseum
11 Plains
7 Swamp
---------------------
26 land
4 Silver Knight
2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
3 Eternal Dragon
2 TWisted Abomination
2 Exalted Angel
1 Withered Wretch
------------------------
14 creatures
4 Wing Shards
4 Smother
4 Akroma's Vengeance
4 Decree of Justice
3 Decree of Pain
1 Wipe Clean
---------------------
20 other spells
Board:
3 Wipe Clean
3 Rain of Blades
2 Withered Wretch
2 Head Games
1 Blackmail
1 Decree of Pain
1 Oblation
1 Cabal Interrogator
1 Dragon Scales
Sam Gomersall also mixes his sugar white and brown:
10 Swamp
8 Plains
2 Secluded Steppe
2 Barren Moor
2 Temple of the False God
2 Grand Coliseum
----------------------
26 land
3 Eternal Dragon
4 Twisted Abomination
2 Graveborn Muse
-------------------------
9 creatures
2 Wipe Clean
4 Pacifism
4 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Infest
4 Decree of Pain
4 Smother
2 Head Games
2 Cruel Revival
---------------------
25 other spells
Board:
4 Silver Knight
2 Withered Wretch
2 Wipe Clean
4 Wing Shards
1 Visara the Dreadful
2 Call to the Grave
Lance Bohac felt 23 lands to be sufficient:
1 Unholy Grotto
4 Grand Coliseum
9 Swamp
9 Plains
----------------
23 land
1 Withered Wretch
4 Exalted Angel
3 Twisted Abomination
2 Undead Gladiator
3 Eternal Dragon
---------------------
13 creatures
4 Akroma's Vengeance
4 Wing Shards
2 Infest
2 Decree of Justice
3 Smother
4 Renewed Faith
3 Decree of Pain
2 Pacifism
-------------------
24 other spells
Board:
3 Graveborn Muse
2 Withered Wretch
2 Visara the Dreadful
2 Disciple of Grace
3 Silver Knight
2 Wipe Clean
1 Demystify
Chris Fennell went the 24 land route:
2 Unholy Grotto
10 Plains
8 Swamp
1 Barren Moor
1 Secluded Steppe
2 Temple of the False God
--------------------------------
24 land
4 Exalted Angel
2 Eternal Dragon
4 Twisted Abomination
2 Visara the Dreadful
1 Withered Wretch
2 Graveborn Muse
-----------------------------
15 creatures
4 Renewed Faith
1 Decree of Pain
3 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Wing Shards
3 Blackmail
4 Infest
3 Cruel Revival
-------------------
21 other spells
Board:
3 Windborn Muse
1 Decree of Pain
3 Head Games
4 Wipe Clean
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Withered Wretch
1 Circle of Solace
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Could this be the Chris of Evan/Chris fame? I do not know, but apparently he changed his deck a bit, if so.
T
train
Guest
Did these decks win out?...
R
Rakamir
Guest
Fennell's deck placed 57th, and is indeed the Chris of Evan/Chris fame. Don't know about the others, I'll check later this week, but it looks like we called it re this deck being the deck of the future, meaning during the shortly upcoming PTQ's. It badly needs a metagame to respond to and to find the proper build, and given that Beasts and Vegetables seem to have waved bye-bye for the time being, it has to be tweaked to beat the following successful decks, at least:
Non-Slide RW Control
BW Control
ZombieBidding/Runes
Slide
FormOfTheDragon "Bad Form" Mono-Red Control
MWC
R/b Goblins
MonoRed Goblins
Non-Slide RW Control
BW Control
ZombieBidding/Runes
Slide
FormOfTheDragon "Bad Form" Mono-Red Control
MWC
R/b Goblins
MonoRed Goblins
R
Rakamir
Guest
Brandon Charnesky has the best finish, placing 34th. Lance Bohac finished 45th, Sam Gomersall 58th.
Killer Joe
New member
Is this the Team CMU Chris Fennel? If so, I think I drafted with him last night. When I see him again maybe I can pick his brain about his updated BW deck.
~Mark
~Mark
R
Rakamir
Guest
Black/White Control by Rakamir
Post-Detroit
2 Smother
3 Eternal Dragon
4 Twisted Abomination
4 Withered Wretch
2 Wipe Clean
2 Wing Shards
2 Infest
4 Cruel Revival
2 Head Games
2 Decree of Pain
2 Exalted Angel
4 Akroma's Vengeance
2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Unholy Grotto
4 Grand Coliseum
2 Temple of the False God
10 Swamps
8 Plains
Sideboard:
2 Smother
2 Infest
2 Decree of Pain
2 Wipe Clean
2 Head Games
2 Graveborn Muse
3 Silver Knight
There you go. It’s rude, it’s crude, but it’s also rough and tough. By all means schmooze it to your liking, but in a post-Detroit world, we have to start somewhere.
Let the debate begin.
Post-Detroit
2 Smother
3 Eternal Dragon
4 Twisted Abomination
4 Withered Wretch
2 Wipe Clean
2 Wing Shards
2 Infest
4 Cruel Revival
2 Head Games
2 Decree of Pain
2 Exalted Angel
4 Akroma's Vengeance
2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Unholy Grotto
4 Grand Coliseum
2 Temple of the False God
10 Swamps
8 Plains
Sideboard:
2 Smother
2 Infest
2 Decree of Pain
2 Wipe Clean
2 Head Games
2 Graveborn Muse
3 Silver Knight
There you go. It’s rude, it’s crude, but it’s also rough and tough. By all means schmooze it to your liking, but in a post-Detroit world, we have to start somewhere.
Let the debate begin.
R
Rakamir
Guest
I have in fact schmoozed my own deck, changing 5 maindeck cards and 6 sideboard cards, taking out a certain card from the side and replacing it with another that makes it much better vs Slide and that horrible Slide/Fattie/hardcastDecAnnihil combo. The deck is testing very well, and I'll provide the new list after I take it into battle this weekend at Neutral Ground. Wish me luck!
The greatest enemy of my deck is ME playing it, unfortunately.
The greatest enemy of my deck is ME playing it, unfortunately.
T
train
Guest
My recollection, was that if a deck was going to win, it needed to have white in it...
R
Rakamir
Guest
Or red. Nothing beats the nuts Goblin draw, except possibly a godhand in RW control and especially Form decks, which have their own enrmies. You should be pretty happy your two favorite colors are king, train, aminotright?
T
train
Guest
I can't say the deck that wins will have red - but I know it will have white...
Best thing about this block - blue stinks!...
Best thing about this block - blue stinks!...
R
Rakamir
Guest
In Detroit, there were more top 8 decks with red than white (and no other colors!). Top 32 were more than a third Goblins. MonoRed Bad Form eats Goblins (so does RW Control and MWC with a decent hand ... so why play Goblins with all the hate out there ? .... must be people like 4th turn kills, the cheeks).
Blue IS pretty much dead, it sticks a finger up through the soil for Read the Runes in ZombieBidding (hey, where are all those FutureSight decks we were promised were so killer, huh!?), but GREEN is really, really dead. That surprised me, but, Scourge killed it.
Blue IS pretty much dead, it sticks a finger up through the soil for Read the Runes in ZombieBidding (hey, where are all those FutureSight decks we were promised were so killer, huh!?), but GREEN is really, really dead. That surprised me, but, Scourge killed it.