OnBC: BW Control

L

Lotus Mox

Guest
BW Control is trying to complement the board control strategy of Mono White Control (see Rakamir's thread) with discard, punish those opponents who won't overextend ;).
Turn 2 Cabal Interrogator, turn 6 Vengeance is quite a strong play against slower decks.

Here's the first draft of that deck for those who are interested:

10 Plains
10 Swamp
3 Secluded Steppe
2 Grand Coliseum

4 Silver Knight
4 Cabal Interrogator
4 Pacifism
3 Smother
4 Wing Shards
3 Bane of the Living
4 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Exalted Angel
4 Eternal Dragon
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Decree of Justice

SB:
4 Wipe Clean
3 Windborn Muse
2 Oblation
2 Withered Wretch
2 Dragon Scales
1 Decree of Justice
1 Smother
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
Why Grand Coliseums? Why not Barren Moors? Because of the heavy double mana? I like the lone Decree of Justice main; I always want to break that card. Not a big fan of Smother in a fat format, but Lingering Death is suboptimal too, so what can you do? Dragon Scales and cards of that type are criticised because of the lack of targeted removal. Huh? I think there's plenty of that.
Wipe Clean reminds me of diaper changing, or "nappies" for you British. Sorry. I like the card, it cycles, but Demystify only costs W, right? Wing Shards is horribly broken in this format, and will teach young players NOT to overcommit, which is a good thing.
Have you thought about Hollow Specter or Blackmail?
 
T

train

Guest
It may not be mono-white, but It's missing Dawn Elemental, or Jareth...
 
L

Lotus Mox

Guest
Dawn Elemental is unfortunately too white to be reliably playable, I'd really like to play it though. (That's what my mono white control versions are for ;) )

Here's an updated decklist: (a bit modified to suit the #apprentice metagame of fairly controllish decks)

10 Swamp
10 Plains
3 Grand Coliseum
2 Secluded Steppe

I'll probably experiment with a few more CIPT lands soon, but you generally only want the 1st land come into play tapped, so I'm not sure if you can include much more

4 Pacifism
4 Wing Shards
4 Akroma's Vengeance

4 Cabal Interrogator Blackmail actually doesn't sound that bad, but Hollow Specter is simply worse than the Interrogator, because it dies to so many things which Interrogator is immune to (Pacifism, Wing Shards, Cruel Revival), it's also 1 turn faster
4 Silver Knight
3 Daru Sanctifier with even Goblin decks running Sulfuric Vortex, I want enchantment removal maindeck, and I like Sanctifier in the main better than Wipe Clean main for some reason
4 Exalted Angel
2 Visara the Dreadful :)
4 Eternal Dragon

2 Dragon Scales these are great in many and at least mediocre in the other matchups so they got moved to the maindeck

SB:
2 Decree of Pain
2 Infest
3 Withered Wretch You need them vs. Bidding decks and they're also great vs. Eternal Dragons
3 Smother
3 Windborn Muse
2 Wipe Clean

cards kicked out of the deck:
Akroma: dying to Wing Shards, Vengeance, Pacifism, Eternal Dragon + Dragon Scales, simply not good enough.
Decree of Justice: it's not bad, I simply didn't have the space though, and decided that Decree of Pain was a bit more generelly useful.
BotL: no space and too slow compared to Infest
Oblation: no space and other cards were generally a bit more useful.


The biggest weakness to this decks are combo decks (Zombie combo or Elves) or Bidding decks, it's also not that great vs. Beasts.
It has a pretty good match up vs. other slow decks (that are the decks I had in mind when building this one), and Goblins are also beatable (here the lack of Dawn Elemental hurts most).
I haven't done that much testing though, so take that with a grain of salt ;)
 
T

train

Guest
That looks okay... Only thing I can think of is, since you're not using you're gy, or relying on it, why not morning tide...

I do know the benefits of wretch - it's just a question...;)
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
I deck such as W/b control should be tier one in OnBC. It should beat mono-white control, and it should be tuned to beat Zombies and Fat Beasts especially. Goblins after boarding. Any ideas or playtest results? Sideboard subs would be sweet too. And if not this, then W/r, my point being white control needs to splash.
 
T

train

Guest
I don't know that it has to splash... I think mixing would be fine...

As for the original post... Instead of the decree of Justice - Jareth might not be too bad.
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
Maybe this will give folks some ideas. This the deck that finished 4th on May 17th at e-league.

Creatures:
4 Exalted Angel
3 Skinthinner
2 Undead Gladiator <=== Trevor
2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4 Wall of Hope

Spells:
3 Wing Shards
2 Call to the Grave
3 Smother
2 Decree of Pain
4 Renewed Faith
4 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Cruel Revival

Lands:
2 Unholy Grotto
11 Plains
11 Swamp

Sideboard:
3 Infest
3 Demystify
1 Skinthinner
1 Cruel Revival
3 Stabilizer
2 Call to the Grave
1 Wing Shards
1 Smother


I can see Call to the Grave in a control build. But only there.
If Ungrotto, then Graveyard Muse. In control, again, I can see the Muse. But he seemed to do well with only Gladiators and RenFaith to speed through the deck.
Cruel Revival is too cool vs so many decks.
I also find Wrath Angels to be too expensive, but he had two.
Wall of Hope? Dayam, with that and Renewed Faith and Exalted Angels, he's definitely going for life gain. Note the absence of Silver Knight and Exalted Dragon?

Here are all the decks from that tourney:


http://www.starcitygames.com/deckda...tType=&Expansion=SCO&Title=&Location=E-league
 
J

John`O

Guest
My pre-Venice version of this was

2 Demystify
4 Bane of the Living
4 Daru Sanctifier
4 Undead Gladiator
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Cruel Revival
4 Exalted Angel
2 Visara
4 Akromas Vengence
2 Unholy Grotto
4 Grand Colessium
10 Plains
12 Swamp

SB
4 Wall of Hope
4 Infest
3 Smother
4 Head Games

probably want to replace some of the enchantment removal
with some Scourge cards now. e.g. Wing Shards, Eternal Dragon.
I would worry about the matchup against beast based decks.

Very surprised that all your decks don't have Visara she is pretty good.

No cycling lands as you can cycle late game with Gladiator and
you need every point of mana early on.


John
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
I like Visara too but in all my testing I found the Gorgon Legend is utterly useless vs Goblins. Tis a handclogger vs that deck, and in your hand at end of game regardless of who wins.

None of these are my decks, btw.

I'm happy I main 4 copies of Withered Wretch in my Zombies build for Eternal Dragon.:)

Beasts are turning out to be a problem for these MBC or RW or BW control builds. Not good, because Beasts will probably be the 2nd most popular deck. However, I would thinik BW has a ton of options to beat it, including Call, Death Pulse, Cruel Revival to complement the white stuff. And Head Games. Soon to be a VERY hated card at a tournament near you. Nobody liked being on the receiving end of Haunting Echoes.

Have a hand ... of land.
 
L

Lotus Mox

Guest
John'O: my second build includes Visara ;)

Here's my new build (using John's deck as a starting point) :

9 Plains
11 Swamp
4 Grand Colisseum
2 Unholy Grotto

2 Undead Gladiator
2 Daru Sanctifier
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Bane of the Living (not sure if it's fast enough)
2 Visara the Dreadful
2 Twisted Abomination
4 Exalted Angel
2 Eternal Dragon

4 Wing Shards
4 Cruel Revival
4 Akroma's Vengeance

SB:
4 Wall of Hope
2 Wipe Clean
3 Infest
3 Smother
3 Withered Wretch
(depending on the metagame, you might want to start the anti-small creatures cards main.)

cards I also considered: Decree of Justice, Decree of Pain, Silver Knight, Skinthinner, Call to the Grave, Pacifism there are just too many good cards.

I also don't like the many 2-ofs in my deck :eek:
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
http://www.brainburst.com/db/article.asp?ID=3158

That's the link that's up today on Brainburst NOTpremium for this archetype, and is in fact the first public mention of it that I can find. Check out the discussion as well. here is the deck:

BW Control Brainburst Forums

Main Deck

2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
3 Eternal Dragon
2 Exalted Angel
2 Visara the Dreadful

4 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Aurification
3 Infest
4 Lingering Death
4 Renewed Faith
4 Smother
3 Unburden

3 Grand Coliseum
11 Plains
12 Swamp

board

3 Blackmail
3 Death Pulse
3 Demystify
2 Exalted Angel
1 Infest
3 Stabilizer
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
I dunno ... looks like it has plenty of answers to early stuff, possibly enough to actually cast Visara then take control. Can't tell till I test it.
 
T

Troll

Guest
Here's my build of a casual B/W control duel deck. My sideboard need a LOT of help. Feel free to advise.

Akroma's Vengance x2
Tithe x4
Swords to Plowshare x2
Orim's Chant x4
Vindicate x4
Death Grasp x4
Chainer's Edict x2
Dark Ritual x4
Phyrexian Scuta x4
Hymn to Tourach x4
Hypnotic Specter
Demonic Tutor
Zuran Orb
Mox Pearl
Mox Jet
Strip Mine
Maze of Ith
Caves of Koilos
Tainted Field x2
Scrubland x4
Plains x5
Swamp x8

SB
Ivory Mask x2
Underworld Dreams
Tormod's Crypt x2
Persecution x2
Feldon's Cane
Wrath of God x4
Aegis of Honor x2
Akroma's Vengance
 
T

train

Guest
I like the Hymn to Tourachs...

Only thing I can think of is using Disks instead of Vengeance...
 
T

Troll

Guest
Two main reasons I don't use Nevy's. I don't have any and the Vengance cycles if it's a dead card. What about some help with the board?
 
T

train

Guest
With the discard you're running - Haunting Echoes maybe?...

Especially after Persecute...;)

Mindslicer might not be a bad idea...
 
Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
This lil' gem of a list was posted at Brainburst, but it didn't have the creator listed.

OnBC: BW Control
2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
3 Eternal Dragon
2 Exalted Angel
2 Visara the Dreadful

4 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Aurification
3 Infest
4 Lingering Death
4 Renewed Faith
4 Smother
3 Unburden

3 Grand Coliseum
11 Plains
12 Swamp

SB://
3 Blackmail
3 Death Pulse
3 Demystify
2 Exalted Angel
1 Infest
3 Stabilizer
 
R

Rakamir

Guest
Why no The Abyss? Too few creatures? Awww, don't listen to me. I'm so out of Type One, my favorite format, it's not even funny. :(

Anyway, seeing as how this is an OnBC thread, there is an interesting article up at Star City by David Johnson today re OnBC BW Control.
First the link, then the decklist. He goes into quite a bit of detail, so it's worth reading:

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=5291

Diversity is a Good Thing
by David Johnson

Creatures
4x Silver Knight
2x Visara The Dreadful
2x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4x Eternal Dragon
4x Exalted Angel

Spells
2x Decree of Pain
2x Infest
4x Smother
4x Akroma's Vengeance
4x Pacifism
4x Wing Shards

Land
9x Swamp
4x Grand Coliseum
11x Plains

Sideboard
3x Unburden
2x Cruel Revival
4x Wipe Clean
2x Infest
4x White Knight
 
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