New member wants opinions.

Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by DarthFerret, Nov 19, 2004.

  1. DarthFerret Evil Sith Weasel

    Hello all, DarthFerret here. I have been playing Magic for a very long time. In fact, I was one of those college Beta testers. Also, a tidbit of info, My buddies and I were sitting around Beta testing one evening to "Monty Pythons: Holy Grail." I was using a blue deck (go figure) and one of the guys suggested that my prodigal sorcerer was very similar to "Tim, the enchanter". The nick name, along with many many others that we tried to come up with was sent to Wizards of the Coast along with our test evaluations, and was printed in many publications including Scry Magazine. So if you did not know before now, that is where the name Tim came from. Not a big thing, but a nice bit of trivia. Anyway, I want to get peoples opinion on the new border design and font and format changes made to the cards begining with 8th edition. I myself find it repulsive, and have stopped buying or collecting any cards with that new look. I think this has had a dramatic effect on many old players like myself, and would like to know if my opinion is agreed with, or if I am just worried about nothin.

    I know this is a long post for my first one, but I needed to get that off of my chest.
  2. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I didn't like the change and still don't. It's too late to go back, I suppose. But there wasn't really anything wrong with the old design that the new one fixed. All it did was make the cards look more like Pokemon cards.

    I never found myself saying any of the following...

    "I couldn't tell that this was a creature at first. Even though it says the word "creature" right above the text box, and even though the power/toughness are perfectly visible to me with my 20/200 vision, I think we should have a nice little box around the power/toughness that will partially intrude into the space of the text box and thereby lower the opinions of everyone who sees me with regards to my aesthetic taste!"

    "Wow, the artwork on this Worship is really good. But you know what really annoys me? The bottom of it! Let's cut that off and stretch the rest out!"

    "The name of this card blurs into the rest or something. Let's make a box to put around it! Yay for boxes. Boxes all over the cards! Boxes are so pretty..."

    "I am a raccoon and am attracted to shiny objects. I think that the foil Magic cards need to look more like the shiny Pokemon cards..."
  3. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Does playing since Ice Age qualify me as an "old' player?


    I rather like the new layout. People whine and whine as though the card layout actually has something to do with the way the game plays. It does not.

    One of the reasons I was turned off by the game at first (the Jester's Cap picture in an ad convinced me to give it a closer look) was that the cards, in my opinion, looked a bit cheesy.

    So I embrace the change. Thanks for asking.

    This isn't the most popular forum here, by the way. You want me to move this to a forum that actually gets visitors?
  4. DarthFerret Evil Sith Weasel

    Chaos Turtle, moving this to another forum would be great. And to answer your question, I do feel that playing that long qualifies you, in my opinion, to be considered an "old player". Most of the people that I know that still play magic started around then or later. Not many of us "playtesters" left. I am also curious about the age of the players here. I am 30, and so far have only found a handful of people older than myself that play. I am starting to feel like an old
  5. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    27, playing since Revised/Fallen Empires.

    The demographic of Magic changed a lot I think, and it attracts younger and younger players. LIke when I took up Games Workshop I was 12 and everyone else was 21. By the time I was 21 everyone else was 12.

    And the new cards look ****, make it hard for me to recognise colour and card type, and I hate them all.
  6. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I'll move it :)

    I don't mind the new look, but I think the colors got a little lighter than what I'm used to. So I'll have to get used to them :)

    Which beta-tester were you, if you don't mind revealing your real name? And you didn't go on to work for WOTC?
  7. Killer Joe Active Member

    42 - Playing Since betwen Ice Age and Mirage.

    Messing with the card face is nothing compared to messing with the "Card Pool", oh, say like, getting rid of Counterspell!!?! in the standard format.

    The cards look fine. I don't think Wiz Co. thought it was "to fix" the old look, but more like to give it a face lift.
  8. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    I used to hate it. But I do like it now. I have to admit. I like the cleaner look. But I hate the fact my cards don't all look the same.
  9. DarthFerret Evil Sith Weasel

    I dont mind at all. My name is J. D. Schrock and I was one of many college kids chosen to Beta-Test. It was not like the Alpha Test that they mentioned in the Users Guide. They did not offer me a job (God, I wish they would have. Cannot think of anything greater!) Not sure if they ever listed all the Beta testers, but my group was based out of the University of Missouri - Rolla also known as the Missouri School of Mines and Metalurgy. If anyone finds a list of the original Beta Testers, let me know, Would love to see my name immortilized. Thanks for moving the post. Love seeing the different responses.
  10. orgg Administrator

    The new look... 'meh.' I still hate the artifact recoloring, as I feel it should still be brown. Still not warm on the boarder change.

    As for the rules, however, they're quite nice. Very understandable.

    I still love the game.
  11. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Still nto a fan of the new look - but some of the cards can't be beat...:rolleyes:
  12. NorrYtt Casual Green Mage

    The new look has a vast number of improvements and very few flaws. They've fixed a couple of these already: artifacts are darker (starting with Fifth Dawn) so they don't look white, and colored mana symbols in text boxes (like on Bringer of the Black Dawn) now have true colors.

    I can read the names of white cards across the table in Limited. Power and Toughness are more visible than before. Longer card names are possible, more text fits in the text box, and the art is larger. Foils are superbly improved in appearance.

    The new card face caused the biggest uproar in Magic history (second is firing Rebecca Guay).

    Design becomes deprecated. It's inevitable. The Constitution needs amendments to maintain a strong and healthy democracy as times change (gays!! J/K). Circuit boards need redesigning to make use of better technology (this is my job ATM). Computer UI (user interfaces) need updates to better serve the user.

    A good example that I'm sure you all know is Nintendo controllers. Look at the old NES controller. Two round, cupped buttons (B & A), two horizontal buttons (Select & Start), a four-directional D-pad, all encased in a thin rectangular box. It's simple in design, yet effective.

    Now look at the SNES controller. The rectangular case is now rounded off to fit in your hands better. The L and R buttons rest comfortably under your index fingers. The Start and Select buttons are tilted because your right thumb presses them from a angle. The Y X B A buttons are colored by pairs and textured differently (B A the same smooth cups, Y X are flat and slightly rough). They arranged in a cross so your thumb can press two of them at a time more easily (remember how we all held the old NES controller crooked while playing Mario to constantly hold B while pressing A periodically?). If you continue to look at more advanced controllers, you see they are less pleasing to the eye and more pleasing to the grip and function.

    That's the real debate: flavor vs. function. The Magic card layout is a graphical user interface. It's job is to convey information about the card to you in an effective manner. R&D decided 10 years was long enough before a face-lift. Notice the GUI received small updates already with expansion symbols, card rarity, and collector's numbers.

    All I can say is that I too signed those petitions and voiced my disgruntlement. But when you get down to it, you're still playing the immaculately elegant and infinitely deep game of Magic. It's just like a new Nintendo controller, sure it looks a little weird, but it makes the game play better.

    If you just start playing with the new cards, you'll see that it's really just not a huge deal. I promise.
  13. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    To me it is not a huge deal, but I stand by my statement that I didn't particularly like, and still do not particularly like the "facelift."
  14. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I thought the second biggest would be the 6th ed. rules with its introduction of the stack... :)
  15. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    I would tend to agree, Spidey. Actually I think it was a much bigger controversy even than the facelift. The "firing" of Rebecca Guay wasn't really controversial at all; people just started to miss her work and wondered what was up. Turns out she hadn't been "fired" at all.
  16. jorael Craptacular!

    IMO the cards are easier to use, but it took me some time to get used to the new art look.

    I still don't like the new artifact color, even though they made it more dark.

    Champions of Kamigawa has very intense art full of details and I think the new card works great with that. The cards are plain and draw your eyes to the art!
  17. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    35.5 - playing since Fallen Empires/Revised (own quite a few older than that).

    I guess the only real problem us older players have w/ the new look is that it's new (that and the artifacts get mixed up w/ White cards too easily). Quite a few of us hate change. We don't like artwork being changed (think back to the introduction of Fourth Edition and Unholy Strenghts lost pentagram), we don't like cards swapping colours (why can't Green have a 1/1 Flyer for only 1 mana?) and, of course, we don't like senseless rules changes (Waylay, anyone?).

    But, it's a part of the game. We can either suck it up and try to addapt to the changes or just stop playing.


    "Don't make me choose!"
  18. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I've found myself caught in just what you describe there, Ferret. But sometimes I am able to look back and think that they really did the wrong thing and should have listened to the players who were whining about the change. I guess it's the whole crying wolf thing though. When you complain about every little change and question anything that is done, you tend to be ignored...

    One change that I am nothing but thrilled about it the creation of the new Legacy format. I am also pleased that the whole block theme thingy (which reached the peak of absurdity with Mirrodin's crazy focus on broken artifacts) has seemingly ended with this latest block. Conversely, I am not at all pleased that the cards in the latest set are mostly uninteresting and underpowered (there are exceptions).
  19. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Like Rosewater wrote Monday, you're not going to please everyone. :)

    But on the more serious side, what do you think the percentage was of players who decried the change? You know the old "adage" or "saying" that people are more likely to complain than when they're happy, so of course you're going to hear complaints about it. But were they even in the majority?
  20. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Well, I can't speak for everyone. But my stance on the new card face was (and still is, I suppose) that there was nothing wrong with the old card face (if it isn't broken, don't fix it).

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