New Format: Top Deck

Discussion in 'Games Run By CPA Members' started by BigBlue, Apr 29, 2008.

  1. BigBlue Magic Jones

    I'm really looking forward to the later games... I think those will be where the format shines through... early games are broken games...
  2. turgy22 Nothing Special

    I'm still not sure how broken the format is. Despite all the cards available, no one's won yet.
  3. BigBlue Magic Jones

    Not yet... (I don't have time to make my play - and I'm still debating which card I should draw - so I haven't looked at the thread yet so it's a fair choice).

    While no one has won yet, I think someone will find a sure fire win (hopefully not 2 of them). The trouble with the sure fire win is it will work once for each player potentially...

    As far as where I think cards returning will be problematic... I'll give card which could break the format otherwise - Soldevi Digger... plenty of cards when used repeatedly will break this format apart...
  4. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    Since everything is in the removed from the game zone, how do the Judgement Wishes work?
  5. BigBlue Magic Jones

    Turgy and I mentioned it, not sure if they would get cards from there or not.
  6. turgy22 Nothing Special

    I'm starting to think this format might be broken.

    I have a suggestion which I think could fix it pretty well: Limit hand sizes to one card at all times. In other words, Ancestral Recall only draws you one card. Ditto Timetwister, Time Spiral, Wheel of Fortune, etc. Not that I don't enjoy taking ridiculously powerful and one-sided turns, but I believe all those cards are a detriment to the spirit of the format and all the mana accelerators would be more balanced if they didn't lead to entirely too much card drawing.

    What do you think?
  7. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    That would be best..... along with banning Traumatize and similar cards. I'd also go as far to stating to Spellbook should be rendered uselss

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  8. BigBlue Magic Jones

    spellbook = banned... I stated up front that all cards which effect or look at hand size are banned...

    I think we should probably add the restricted list to the banned list (P9, Wheel, etc...) That takes care of the 7 card draw cards... If those are banned, perhaps it would work if we allowed regular hand sizes...

    That'd get rid of almost all the broken cards. Traumatize should be banned as well, not because it's broken, but it would really make the thread unmanageable and take a long time to deal with.

    When I thought up this format - I was thinking casually - with casual cards, not the uber combo's... I'm glad Turgy is my opponent and is abusing the format just to show where it needs fixing... I still think it could be salvageable... Especially the limited version as suggested by Modus...
  9. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    Some examples of cards that put things to the top of your library:
    Vampiric Tutor (ok, not the best thing here ;))
    Memory Lapse
    and more importantly:

    I would say that the top of library is set once it gets known.
    Otherwise, the most broken card of the format would be Counterbalance, basically countering everything, revealing the worst cards, then removing them from the game, creating a hard lock..
  10. BigBlue Magic Jones

    Here's the official restricted/banned List which we would make all banned:

    Ancestral Recall, Balance, Black Lotus, Burning Wish, Channel, Chrome Mox, Crop Rotation, Demonic Consultation, Demonic Tutor, Dream Halls, Enlightened Tutor, Entomb, Fact or Fiction, Fastbond, Frantic Search, Gifts Ungiven, Grim Monolith, Imperial Seal, Library of Alexandria, Lion’s Eye Diamond, Lotus Petal, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Memory Jar, Mind’s Desire, Mox Diamond, Mox Emerald, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Mox Ruby, Mox Sapphire, Mystical Tutor, Necropotence, Personal Tutor, Regrowth, Sol Ring, Strip Mine,
    Time Spiral, Time Walk, Timetwister, Tinker, Tolarian Academy, Trinisphere, Vampiric Tutor, Wheel of Fortune, Windfall, Yawgmoth’s Bargain, Yawgmoth’s Will

    In addition to Ante Cards, Shaharazad, Falling Star, and Chaos Orb

    I don't know that all of those cards are broken in this format, but a lot of them are.
  11. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    Maybe try incorporating a "rule of law"-effect, aka people can only play one spell per turn.
  12. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    How about a format that has "Players play with their hands and Libraries revealed." Then make all shuffle effects not work, and draw means draw any card in your library?
  13. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    You know....... since drawing cards pretty much broke the format this last match, why not remove the possibility of drawing cards outside of your one per turn? Any card with a cantrip effect would still work, but the card draw point would be ignored.

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  14. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Good point, but do you have to draw during your draw step or could you skip that if you have a draw effect creature, etc......?
  15. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    Draw during your draw step only. Draw affects and ablilities don't work.

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  16. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    I think you should have one draw per turn, no matter how you do that draw, draw effects and abilities or the draw step...... you just can't go over the limit of 1 per turn...... Each turn.....
  17. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    Maralen-without-the-lifeloss :)
  18. BigBlue Magic Jones

    One thing I've learned over the years is not to change too much at once...

    With the addition of banning the restricted list I think the following additional rule replacements correct the biggest deficiencies:

    If a spell or ability would have you draw from, remove from, or reveal from your library more than one card this turn, draw, remove, or reveal only one card instead.

    This fixes a lot of cards which break the format, without making a huge banned list.
  19. turgy22 Nothing Special

    Sounds good.

    Play again?
  20. BigBlue Magic Jones

    Sure, with the banned list & the additional replacement rule. Traumatize, Word of Command, Mindslaver, and Zur's wierding should also be banned...

    Cantrips and slowtrips would still be the same for now - I don't envision them as super problematic. They generally cost more... Isochron Scepter is on my watch list as well...

    Fyi to all - my work internet connectivity is down, I'm working from my blackberry so I can't quote posts easilly...

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