MP: RGw Fires

C

Captain Caveman

Guest
"La Bastille en Seville"

Reminds me of an old Duelist article by Rob Hahn or someone.

I'd like to see you version of Flagpole(TwR/Slivers)or whatever
that deck was called. You might try TS(Tradewind/Survival) next
month. Thats your style or maybe Erratic Spikes updated.
 
Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
Cap'n C: You old sea dog, you're right! It was from an article way back back in '98. The article also listed Jeff Donais' Five-Color Blue as well. I'll dig it up and post it later.

You must've read my post about the ATS deck from the rules questions forum, huh? I'll dig that list up, too. But I gotta tell ya, it sucked! Or, more likely, I sucked playing it. The Slivers were a big mistake, IMO.

I actually thought about running an MP version of Erratic-Spikes with a splash of white for additional life gain and Disenchant/Seal of Cleansing. Maybe.

O-Soul: I played TS back in the day when it was Extended legal. I never made any friends playing THAT deck but mostly always walked away a winner. :D
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Originally posted by Killer Joe
I played TS back in the day when it was Extended legal. I never made any friends playing THAT deck but mostly always walked away a winner. :D
Click to expand...


I've never been an Extended player. So it's not legal now. What did they ban? Survival? Not surprising...

Stupid format that bans Dark Ritual...
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Originally posted by Spiderman
Why do you care? It's a format-rule, not a comprehensive rule...
Click to expand...
Here's why. Some friends of mine were playtesting Extended decks one time, and talking about the competition and all. I got involved in the conversation, and one of them said something like, "well, Extended is a very fast format." My first thought was that I hadn't known this. My second thought was that this was the format that banned Dark Ritual. "Fast compared to what? Type 2?"

Look a this...

Ancient Tomb: Yes they banned Ancient Tomb. Ancient Tomb is only moderately good. I sort of doubt that monobrown was dominating the format or anything. Yeah, I'm sure there was an explanation given at some point. I'm sure it also sucked.

Dark Ritual: Yes, the ultimate black staple card. There is no Necropotence or Hypnotic Specter or Hymn to Tourach in Extended (anymore, and this has been banned for a while, but still). What makes Dark Ritual a threat? I imagine that the banning of this card drove many players away from the format, but I wasn't paying any attention to it at the time.

Dream Halls: This one is probably obvious. Since they are also banning all the mana acceleration that makes decks able to kill someone before Dream Halls hits, Dream Halls must be banned. Well, it's too broken not to ban regardless of that, I suppose.

Earthcraft: Since they're banning anything that can possibly compete with Earthcraft, they have to ban Earthcraft too.

Entomb: Dragon? Reanimator? I don't even know. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one...

Frantic Search: Free card drawing=obvious pick for banned list. No arguments here.

Goblin Lackey: WHAT? This possibly tops the Dark Ritual one. What decks do people play in Extended anyway? They obviously don't play Goblins or anything with black.

Goblin Recruiter: I'm assuming that this was over the "Gobvantage" thing.

Grim Monolith: Without any powerful cards to accelerate, how is mana acceleration good anymore? Still, this is a broken card and all...

Hermit Druid: Yeah, Angry Hermit and all that. I'm not convinced, but MAYBE he does deserve to be banned. I'm not positive.

Lotus Petal: Oh no! More mana stuff. It MUST be banned...

Memory Jar: No explanation needed for this sucker.

Mind Over Matter: It costs a ton. They banned all the mana stuff. It is a game-winner and all, but what would they use it with in this format?

Oath of Druids: The card that does nothing unless my opponent drops a creature is banned. This officially converts Extended into scrub format.

Replenish: Maybe PandeBurst was too good?

Survival of the Fittest: Broken. Probably Rec-Sur was too good or something.

Time Spiral: It seems Mind's Desire wasn't on the list. I wouldn't want to face both cards in the same deck. So I guess this makes plenty of sense.

Tinker: Well, there's no Jar to fetch. But now there's Darksteel Colossus. Banning makes sense for this card.

Tolarian Academy: This is probably the #1 card I would expect to be banned.

Windfall: When you ban EVERYTHING else, it's not like you're going to draw any threats with this cards. Oh well, better safe than sorry...

Yawgmoth's Bargain: Another "duh" card for the banned list.

Yawgmoth's Will: I'm not sure what would happen if it were unbanned, but it wouldn't be healthy for the format.

Wow, I didn't know they had banned Goblin Lackey too. Extended sucks...
 
T

train

Guest
I agree on all the blue ones, but the others should be restricted or something..
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
If you don't play Extended then you probably don't know (and I don't either, but this is what I've heard/read), Lackey combos with other gobbos to bring about a fast win.

Dark Ritual is just too plain fast - 3 mana for 1 pretty much lowered any 3 cc spell to 1. No other color has that and it just skews black's spells.

But again I ask, why do you care? You just gave a me a rundown of the banned cards but not really a reason why that I could discern besides "your friends were talking about how fast it was". Are you just saying it's stupid on principle because it bans certain cards you like, but really doesn't matter since you don't follow format rules?
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Um, the format is pretty popular. What I was saying was WHY I think Extended is stupid. I guess you what you're asking is why I care whether it's stupid or not? Well, it's not so much that I care about the format, but that the format is pretty popular (at least around here). That affects me, because if players were not focusing on Extended, they might instead be playing Type 1.5 or something else where I could compete. And the point of my bringing up the player who called Extended a "fast" format is that all the fast cards seem to be getting banned.

Anyway, I know what Goblin Lackey does. I've used it before myself. It does provide a boost, but that, I would think, would be what would allow goblin decks to compete. The idea of banning a card like Goblin Lackey or Ancient Tomb in Type 1.5 would be ludicrous. If Dark Ritual is too fast, then why was Extended doing just fine while it was legal (alongside Necropotence, although Dark Ritual, I believe was banned BEFORE Necro was banned, both order to weaken the same deck, which seems to me to be a shoddy way of doing things)?

And it hasn't always been that way. I wasn't ever really an Extended player myself. But Extended used to allow Dark Ritual, Replenish, Oath, etc. It was a balanced format too (and more fun than what we have now). The bannings here, in my opinion, rather than enhancing the health of the format, only serve to decrease the power level of decks overall. Unfortunately, this opinion seems not to be shared by many players in my area, who stick to the format.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
That affects me, because if players were not focusing on Extended, they might instead be playing Type 1.5 or something else where I could compete.
Click to expand...
But again, it was my impression that you didn't compete in any type of format, you were a casual player to the hilt. Are you saying you DO compete in those formats and follow the B/R lists but just haven't posted any decks?

although Dark Ritual, I believe was banned BEFORE Necro was banned
Click to expand...
This could be just Type 1, but I think Necro was banned first after "Necro Summer/Winter" (95?) Dark Ritual was banned in response to the Donate/Illusions combo that came up in Urza's Saga(?) So hazy about the dates... :)

And it hasn't always been that way. I wasn't ever really an Extended player myself. But Extended used to allow Dark Ritual, Replenish, Oath, etc. It was a balanced format too (and more fun than what we have now). The bannings here, in my opinion, rather than enhancing the health of the format, only serve to decrease the power level of decks overall. Unfortunately, this opinion seems not to be shared by many players in my area, who stick to the format.
Click to expand...
Regarding your last sentence, so are the majority of the players in your area happy with the power level of Extended with the current B/R list? Have they or you played when they weren't banned? What was their opinion about it then?

Is your area one where people are "playing nicely" and not cut-throat? I mean, the bannings are done for a reason (usually :) ) and that's because overall, it's been shown to dominate or breakdown the environment. It could be that your area isn't at that point or doesn't care about that level or whatever (it's hard to say, I hope you get what I'm trying to say).
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
I wouldn't say that I'm a casual player to the hilt. I am into Type I also and I used to play in Type 1.5 tournaments. I don't know if my area is particularly cut-throat, but it depends on who you talk to, I would imagine.

I believe I did post a 1.5 legal build in this forum, although I never really used it for that format specifically.

As for the banned/restricted histories of Dark Ritual and Necropotence...

I'm pretty sure that Dark Ritual's only banning was in Extended format in 2000. If I remember correctly, it and Mana Vault were both banned in one fell swoop, primarily to weaken Necro-Donate decks.

Necropotence was not banned in 1995 to the best of my knowledge. It was restricted in T1 (and of course banned in 1.5, as always happens with T1 restrictions) in the year 2000 and banned in Extended some time later (2000 or 2001, but I don't know).

Originally posted by Spiderman
Regarding your last sentence, so are the majority of the players in your area happy with the power level of Extended with the current B/R list? Have they or you played when they weren't banned? What was their opinion about it then?
Click to expand...
The majority of players in my area would be pretty happy with whatever gets thrown at them. They often neither know nor care what specifically caused the banning of a certain card. I do not know anyone who was unhappy with Extended back in, say, 2000, but I also don't know many who are unhappy with it now anyway, so I guess that's not saying much.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Boy, maybe I'll check the banning dates tomorrow. :)

So it sounds like your area is pretty "casual" for the Extended format. Not cut-throat tourney, trying to find the next broken Extended deck or cards... :)
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Originally posted by Spiderman
Boy, maybe I'll check the banning dates tomorrow. :)

So it sounds like your area is pretty "casual" for the Extended format. Not cut-throat tourney, trying to find the next broken Extended deck or cards... :)
Click to expand...
From my perspective...

Type I: There's not so much of it but it's gotten a bit more popular.

Type 1.5: It used to be played somewhat, but now there's almost no participation for this format.

Type 1.X: Much more popular than the previous two. Some players are cut-throat. Most are pretty casual.

Type II: Even more popular than 1.X. Also more cut-throat.

Block format: Not as popular as T2. More cut-throat.

Limited: Quite popular, most players either relatively casual or inept.

Any of these generalizations may or may not be all that accurate though...
 
Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
Angry-Tradewind-Survival
Format:1.5

4x Tradewind Rider
4x Survival of the Fittest
4x Wall of Roots
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Quirion Ranger
1x Spike Feeder
1x Spike Weaver
2x Sylvan Library
1x Anger
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Masticore
2x Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1x Gilded Drake
1x Uktabi Orangutan
1x Cartographer
1x Genesis
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
1x ????
1x ????

6x Forest
1x Taiga
4x Tropical Island
3x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills

After screwing around with THIS version of Tradewind Survival, I think it's pretty tough to play. But when it gets it's "Groove-on" there's no stopping it. I can't remember what the last two slots are and I don't remember where I got the list :(.
 
T

train

Guest
KJ - what about Wall of Blossoms in place of Roots?...

Maybe a Darksteel Colossus, and Akroma for your final 2 critters?...
 
T

train

Guest
I figured you were doing it for acceleration... I was just thinking card advantage...;)

:cool:
 
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