Let's make a deck using Bosh!

M

Mikeymike

Guest
I think including white in here is worth it. Isty pointed out Hanna, and its almost worth splashing white for her alone - especially if we give our creatures haste.

But white also gives us Second Sunrise, which has 2 very significant uses in here.
1 - Its defensive use. Changes are people in your group are playing WoGs, Shatterstorm, Akoma's Vengeance, etc etc. Its almost necessary.
2 - Its combo use. Both S-S and Bosh can be used as instants, which means we can very easily end the game in a half-turn. Here's a pretty easy example:
8 total mana needed, Bosh and Gilded Lotus out. At your opponent's End of Turn, Sac Bosh to himself for 8 damage, cast S-S to bring back Bosh.
During your turn, sac Gilded Lotus and Bosh. That is 21 damage.
Add some more mana and another big artifact to the equation, and you're looking at 30+ damage.

White also has some pretty strong Artifact friendly cards, like Enlightened Tutor, Argivian Archaeologist, Treasure Hunter, and Argivian Find.

I'm not crazy about Gilded Lotus, but it works in here. This deck is colored-mana hungry, and with Bosh it's also good for 5 damage.

Other artifacts worth considering are Draco (just because its a quick 16 damage), Junk Diver (or Myr Retriever, depends if JD's cost is better with Bosh - both are a 2for1 with the Welder), and Quicksilver Amulet (it's not easy casting a lot of these creatures).

I'd be wary of Goblin Welder and Trash for Treasure. They are probably worth playing in here, but the focus of the deck is sacrificing to Bosh, not to the Welder. Pentavus was a great idea (Thopter Squadron too), and chances are we'll need to run 4+ if we want to support both Bosh and the Welder.

On a side note, my favorite part of Bosh is that you can attack with his big beefy butt and then he can self-sacrifice for 8 direct damage. That's doubly huge b/c not only is it crazily efficient, but it allows us to get around the Legend rule as well.
 
T

train

Guest
Just run tons of fat artifact creatures, hermit druid, and living death...
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Did anybody beside the Reverend actually read my last post?

I already suggested the Pantavite tokens would make good fodder, and I already suggest haste.

I actually think rolling with Extended instead of T1 so we can use the full count of Tinkers is a good idea.

Here's my decklist. I know it ignores some of your other concerns, (Like Pyromancy), so I'm just submitting it as what I would do if I were tyrant of this thread.

Lands(20)
Seat of the Synod x4
Great Furnace x4
Shivan Reef x4
Mountain x4
Island x4

Throw 'em out!(10)
Tinker x4
Goblin Welder x4
Trash for Treasure x2

The Big Stuff(8)
Bosh x3
Pentavus x3
Phyrexian Colossus x2

Draw/Pitch(9)
Thirst for Knowledge x4
Compulsion x3
Careful Study x2

L'Fodder(13)
Welding Jar x2
Ornithopter x3
Lightning Greaves x4 <------ Por L'Hastings
Tangle Wire x4 <------- HA HA HA HA!
 
T

train

Guest
Did anybody beside the Reverend actually read my last post?
Calm down rooser... sometimes things get missed... sometimes not...;)

i think the living death idea is a good one myself...
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
Ericbess

Thirst for Knowledge...it was there waving it's hands at us begging for attention. In this deck it's an obvious fit. Thanks for the recommendation.

Read the Runes, I don't believe is as cost efficient when compared to Thirst and Careful Study. Good suggestion though...maybe we could find a way to use it's sac'ing cost to our benefit in a later deck....hmmm. :)

P.S. Don’t' worry we had the combo'ing goodness in mind with Tetravus and Pentavus ;)

Mikeymike

You raise some really good points for splashing white. Whites better at tutoring for artifacts and putting them directly into play (rector). But your real sticking point was Second Sunrise. I think I brought up the possibility of using S.S. earlier but I never took into consideration it's defensive capabilities as well. I think splashing just enough white for 4 second sunrises would be worth it taking Mikeymike's arguments into consideration.

What do ya'all think? Splash a tad of white to squeeze in S.S. ?


Train

Well being this isn't a big stupid green creature deck we don't expect you to understand our intricate deck machinations :p

No really though I think that would be a big detour in our current deck ideology. It'd probably more efficient but less recursive...and we're interesting in taking out multiple mo'fos!

Rooser

I agree with you that we'd probably get more bang for our buck by making this extended and running four tinkers. We'd be ok by running Reefs over Volcanic Islands...which in all reality I think would be easier on most CPA'ers.

From here on I think we should reference this deck from a 1.5 viewpoint instead of the usual type1.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With the suggestion of Thirst of Knowledge by Eric I'm really leaning towards cutting Compulsion entirely. While yes Comp. sticks around and plays for awhile T.f.K. draw efficiency is something like twice that of Compulsion when thinking in the terms of:

Drawing Three Cards:

Play Compulsion 1B
Activate Compulsion 1B, Discard, Draw
Activate Compulsion 1B, Discard, Draw
Activate Compulsion 1B, Discard, Draw

That's an 8 mana four card investment as compared to T.f.K. which is:

B2
Draw three discard 2, or 1 if it's an artifact we're discarding (bosh, Pentavus).

Also because we're drawing first if we're not happy with what's received, CHUCK IT!

Right now I'm leaning towards 0..or 1 Compulsion and 4 Thirsts.

Also Mikeymike raised a valid point for splashing white.

Watcha guys think?

Ooh yea watcha guys think about using Solemn Simulacrum ? Could you imagine getting a cycle going with this guys!?

1. caste/welder into play
2. Get a land
3. Toss using bosh or use for Tinker, T.f.F, welder
4. Draw a card
5. Rinse cycle repeat.

...this would be damn ugly.
 
T

train

Guest
Granted...

What about the artifact that gains you life whenever an artifact goes to the graveyard...
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
RL, Solemn Simulacrum is perfect in here. Its nice with Bosh, and its freaking disgusting with Goblin Welder. Its also nice with EB's Thirst for Knowledge suggestion.

I thought at first TfK was that Affinity card drawer (which is uninspiring), but TfK is an extremely good card drawing instant in an artifact deck that becomes better in a Welder deck.

This deck is coming together quite nicely.

Regarding White and Second Sunrise, it'd definitely be easier to play in Type 1 with duals. But each format can support it.
Type 2 - Gilded Lotus, the Talismans, Fetch Lands
Extended - Pain Lands, Reflecting Pool
1.5 - Gemstone Mine, Undiscovered Paradise, Land Tax (which is nice with the Talismans since your land count will be lower).

Again, I would still consider Gilded Lotus b/c this deck is both high mana and colored mana hungry.

And I think Rooser has the best idea so far with the haste giver, using Lightning Greaves. More artifact fuel, and it has very nice synergy with the Welder - either making it untargetable (which it needs) or acting as quick swap fodder.

Damn, I'm going to have to build this deck.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Yeah, Lightning Greaves is SO overlooked right now. It fits well in LOTS of decks.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Actually, in Mirrodin block, Meltdown might have been overpowered, since it gives the caster the option of keeping all of it's high casting cost monster stuff while sweeping the board of the little fun things.
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
Well it appears we've all reached a consensus on the cards/build with varies changes made from person to person...

Here's what I've come up with:

Main Cards: 8
4 Bosh, Iron Golem
4 Goblin Welder

Draw/Pitch: 8
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Careful Study

Recursive Creatures: 6
3 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Pentavus

Pitch Fodder/Support: 15
1 Lotus Petal
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Tinker
1 Sol Ring
2 Chromatic Sphere
3 Trash for Treasure

Lands: 23
4 Volcanic Island
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
6 Mountain
5 Island


So far goofing around with apprentice (still waiting for my Ebay purchases AND boxes I've ordered :mad: ) I've noticed it's a drawing/deck thinning machine. Third turn Boshs/pentavus/S.S. we're VERY common through the use of T.f.T, Tinker, or the almighty Welder.

Eric's Suggestion of Thirst for Knowledge was great. Not only does it get bosh into the graveyard but it nets you two more cards in the process.

Lightning greaves suggested by Rooser allow this deck to get absolutely stupid by allowing a summoned welder to hastily place Bosh in play, switch over to Bosh then Bash.

Pentavus as Thallid Ice Cream man suggested..well let's just say he gives the "degenerate" feeling when combo'd....and I'm not even getting the 7 points of righteous love.

Once this thing gets going this thing is an absolute machine by either going for big damage through the use of Pentavus or moocho card advantage:

Bosh throws Solemn Simulacrum --- Deal 4 --- Draw
Welder places him back in play --- Fetch Land
Bosh throws Solemn Simulacrum --- Draw --- Deal 4 --- Draw
Welder places him back in play --- Fetch Land

It sounds a little far fetched but it's easily done.

I have to say this is one of the better decks I've been part of for awhile. It's already going to become one of my all time faves....thanks for all your help guys.
 
T

train

Guest
So when's the convention?...

"Welcome to the CPA World Domination Convention!!!"
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
Wow, that's pretty impressive. I'm glad to hear it went off so well.

Sounds like a new casual arch-type was just created :D

Any apparent weaknesses in the deck? I was thinking that Metalworker might be of interest in here if its mana hungry. It too works quite disgustingly with Lightning Greaves.

Looking at it, it seems the most damaging aspect would be graveyard removal. But the only things I know that can potentially stop it are counter (ehh) and Ground Seal (obviously not in the colors).

Triskelion is another potential consideration if mini-critters are a problem.

Lastly, be careful with Seat of Synod. A buddy was playing the red one in an artifact deck tonight and it was not a good card against Deeds and Disk. Deed especially rips them new ones, since it can act as a stone rain if necessary (0 cost).
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
OK, built an MP version of RL's deck Now that I've finally gotten my Bosh 4-pack. I've only gold-fished it so far, but I can see that it is pretty damned dangerous.

Main Cards: 8
4 Bosh, Iron Golem
4 Goblin Welder

Draw/Pitch: 8
4 Thirst for Knowledge - what a great card this is
2 Careful Study
1 Fact or Fiction - very effective
1 Ancestral Recall (can be Careful Study)

Recursive Creatures: 6
3 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Pentavus (all I own)
1 Duplicant - new addition, was a 4th Simulacrum, but I wanted the variety and the loophole around the Lifeline. Duplicant is my new favorite card

Pitch Fodder/Support: 16
1 Lifeline - Train's idea, and it is absolutely nasty in here
1 Black Lotus (can be Lotus Petal)
3 Lightning Greaves - might need to add a 4th
4 Stifle - for Deed/Disk fear, but they are never a dead card anyway
1 Tinker
1 Sol Ring
2 Gilded Lotus (can be Chromatic Sphere for more speed, but these haven't let me down yet)
2 Trash for Treasure
1 Zuran Orb - won't know how effective until I go against live players, but with the artifact lands and Lifeline/Welder I can do some recurvise lifegain

Lands: 23
4 Volcanic Island
2 Seat of the Synod
2 Great Furnace
2 Mox Ruby, Sapphire (can be the artifact lands)
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
5 Mountain
5 Island

I only put 1 Lifeline in here as a tester, and it is just downright ugly effective with Simulacrums and Bosh. I can sack Bosh on my turn for 8 damage, and he automatically comes back at EOT to do it again (untapped by the way, which is important in chaos play). It also allows me to recycle my creature artifacts for non-creature.

The Simulacrums are awesome. Plain and simple. I dropped 1 for a Duplicant, as late game they were somewhat redundant. 5 times gold-fishing they emptied my library of all my basic lands.

I'm also going to try Thran Dynamo in place of the Gilded Lotus to see if the colored mana outweighs the extra 1 CC.

Biggest problem so far, I've upped the mana-curve considerably, so I have had a few hands of 2,3 lands with only 5+ CC items. But only once out of about 8 gold-fishes did it really hurt. Every other time the deck worked around it by either TfK/Welder, Simulacrums, and Tinker.

I'll let you know how it does in the MP game. Man am I looking forward to it.
 
T

train

Guest
Glad the lifeline smashes face!!!...:D :cool:

Now if only there was room for something like Furnace of Rath!!!... or Pandemonium!!!...:eek: :eek: :cool: ;)
 
A

Academy Man

Guest
If were going to make it type 1 then we should definately play Tolarian Academy. Have Grim Monolith or Mana Vault been considered yet?
 
T

train

Guest
The Academy is a good idea... the grim and mana vault are 1 time shots... though good ones...

The deck isn't wanting to pay to untap them... it's mana is better used elsewhere...
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
All 3 are good suggestions, as the Welder can recycle the tapped Grim/Vault.

The Pandemonium and Furnace effects would be nice, but they'd be kind of random cards in here.

I'd actually like to get Phyrexian Colossus in there as well (more Welder/Greaves abuse) but I don't know what to take out.

-1 Wasteland
-1 Black Lotus (I feel dirty playing it)

+1 Tolarian Academy (brain fart)
+1 Mana Vault

So I still want to add:
Phyrexian Colossus
1 more Duplicant (maybe)
more Lifelines

I still need to explore the mana situation, and possibly some form of bounce and/or artifact destruction.
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
Darksteel Colossus anyone? If this beast of destruction does make it in then we've got ourselves a winner.
 
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