Israel

[Svenmonkey]

The situation in Israel is too much for me to ignore any more. The Palestinians (specifically the ones involved with Hamas) have really screwed it up for themselves, and that Ariel Sharon a-hole is using his army far too much, and against the wrong people (though nobody knows who the right people are). The US should take all military aid from Israel and leave it to its own childish self-destructive bickering.

And y'know what I saw on the news (I think it was ABC's Nightline) today? There was video of Israeli troops "escorting" a mass of reporters out of Jerusalem. This included kicking the ones who fell behind the group (yes, it was a good old-fashioned forced march) in the butt to get them moving. There was also video of a group of protesting international aid workers being shot at by Israeli troops (well, at least the ground in front of them was being shot, but it was with real bullets from the machine guns atop the tanks). Sharon should be removed from power, for he's a militaristic bastard. And Hamas isn't helping.

Overall: SHARON + HAMAS= STEAMING TOILET of POO

 

[arhar]

*must.... resist.... must.... not.... lose.... temper... must..... not..... give in.... must... ignore.... stupidity"

grrrrrr

 

[Hetemti]

Ummm...yummy delicious flamebait.

Religous wars are nothing but children arguing over who's imaginary friend is better. Frankly, I don't care what they do in their own sandbox, but they'd better keep it contained therein.

Course, America's been funding and supplying the Israilies for decades while they cheat the palistinians by breaking all the peace agreements they sign, leading the palistinians to take desparate measures, but that's not my fault. I didn't do it. But the israilies need to realize that a truly desparate man is unstoppabe, and straping chemical bombs to their bodies is nothing compared to what they could be exploding in the future.

Glad I don't live there.

 

[Ransac]

I take no side. I just wanted the fighting to stop. Yet, it seems everytime they agree to terms, one side sends a suicide bomber in.


War is overrated.



Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[DÛke]

...Well, I saw tapes of teenage girls telling of how they're about to go in, and commit a suicidal bombing -- much like of what's been happening. The CNN, of course, shows the Israelis who've been hurt by the bombs...which is ok if you want part of the truth.

You know, I figured that any sensible human being would ask...what in the world would derive a teenage lady, who has her whole entire life ahead of her, to kill herself and end her life at such a young age? I mean, the girl must be fed up! And "fed up" probably is the greatest understatement of all time.

I truly don't want to take sides. However, there are certain facts that kind of control my point of view. Especially seeing people *my* age living a miserable life, and ending their lives...while I, here in the U.S., sit on my a**, eat great food, and have a "great life." Well you know what? I honestly don't feel like I have a great life when I know that my peers somewhere are feeling the way they do.

Anyone who's been looking at the news would know that Sharon has been a clone of Hitler -- he's straight forward committing terrorism on the innocent Palestinians...and of course, when Palestinians hit back with the *only* thing they got ("suicide bombing") that counts as "terrorism." And you'd see it on CNN even. Naturally, the U.S. is right in the middle of all of this, and is even responsible for a lot of it.

Svenmonkey:

...though nobody knows who the right people are...

I suggest you ask your president. According to him, Isreal is the right side, while Palestine is the evil, terrorizing one. Does anyone else wonder how he got to be a president, and who all are the people that voted for him -- and why?

It's not about taking sides *at all* any more. Taking sides is childish and pointless at this point. This is where we separate the line between the truth that's out there, and the truth that we'd like to indulge in. It is where we separate those who know and those who don’t; those who see what they want to see, and those who see what is out there.

*Anyone* who has been following the story would know who's at the greater side of culpability at this point...

And please, before starting such a thread with a statement like "though nobody knows who the right people are," I suggest you read some history of Palestine, and some history of Isreal. Read it, and read it hard...and inform yourself.

 

[Spiderman]

Hetemti:

Course, America's been funding and supplying the Israilies for decades while they cheat the palistinians by breaking all the peace agreements they sign

Eh? What's this?

DUke:

You know, I figured that any sensible human being would ask...what in the world would derive a teenage lady, who has her whole entire life ahead of her, to kill herself and end her life at such a young age? I mean, the girl must be fed up! And "fed up" probably is the greatest understatement of all time.

Or has been indoctrined from birth/start of education that all Israelis are "evil"... "fed up" more assumes that she has actually had a chance to see peace.

Especially seeing people *my* age living a miserable life, and ending their lives...

Or being forced to spend time in the armed forces....

Anyone who's been looking at the news would know that Sharon has been a clone of Hitler -- he's straight forward committing terrorism on the innocent Palestinians...and of course, when Palestinians hit back with the *only* thing they got ("suicide bombing") that counts as "terrorism."

Again, eh? I'll take the position that the Palestinians are not "hitting back", they're just plain hitting.

 

[DÛke]

...

I think it's wrong that we answer questions, or argue for something Spiderman, especially since we are the ones who do that all the time. This time, I think *you* should look up and see if what we're saying is wrong or right.

Spiderman:

I'll take the position that the Palestinians are not "hitting back", they're just plain hitting.

There's no position here at all. If you've been following the story, you'd know exactly who's guilty. The end. It's not about "who knows" any more, or perspectives...no. I would love to argue this, but sadly, the truth is...Isreal is murdering people, and breaking all the rules. Then, Bush comes on TV saying that he "urges" the Palestinian President to do something. The least you people should know is that the president has been entrapped in his own home, without electricity or water, and with tanks surrounding his every movement. Could you please explain...

This time around, when you say Palestininas are guilty or what have you, you are admitting that you're biased and ignorant. *Look up the news.* See the point of view of almost *any* country other than the U.S. and Isreal -- they all disagree with the current action. Pardon me when I say, but the U.S. and Isreal have a big, big day coming for them...

I once said "time will tell," and it is telling. A month ago I didn't care. Few days after that...it just became so obvious.

Sorry, I can't argue. The truth is just out there, and truth can't be argued...no need to argue over personal "positions" when you could argue how such an evil scheme is in progress...

 

[Killer Joe]

I do not have enough information on this topic to form a constructive opinion, however, I do have an uninformed opinion and it goes like this:
When the Isreali state was formed, way back in the late 40's, maybe the land that was assigned to be Isreal was not properly attained or the folks who lived there weren't properly compensated. Maybe, it was just "taken" by the biggest dude on the block (who just won the war), and given as a present to the Isreali's in compensation for their horrorable recent past.
And maybe, the US helped the Isreali's so much in building a country that their neighbors felt jilted (w/ kicker) and began to resent the Isreali's (please note how I'm not refering to them as JEW'S-not every Isreali is religious).
And maybe the Isreali's got the silent nod, from the US, to kick some booty when pushed around by the bullies on the block (The 7 day war).
FWD to today: Isreal is a blooming country with a democratic gov't (or should I say, non-oppressive) and flaunting it's greatness among the Sneeches without stars on their bellies. Frankly, if I lived on the same block, I'd be pretty 'ticked-off', too. I mean, just a couple of thousand years ago, these people were slaves to the Egyptians ("Let my people go." - Moses), and now they control a large portion of the financial world market? (tongue-in-cheek comment)
Pfft!!!! Let the bombing begin! Here are the bullies' demands:
1.) Isreal must cease to exsist.
2.) ....there is no number 2.
Aaaack!!!! It's true, in an interview I saw about 10 years ago, a Palestinian radical said that in the laws of Palestine, there is a passage that is written that demands the extinction of Isreal as a country.

Do I think that Isreal should stop the combat offensive (attack phase)? Yes.
Do I think that the Palestinians believe that Isreal will ever give back the land that Isreal is occupying? No.
Should both kids shake hands and compromise? Yes. But first, let the parents make-up: Americans and Arabs.

 

[Azreal the Soulmaster]

"War never determines who is right, simpy who is left"

i don't recall who said that at the moment...but oh well.

 

[Spiderman]

DUke: I have been following the story and this is how it's going: There's a cease-fire which is broken when some suicide bomber on the Palestinian side blows himself up. And there were probably around three of these cases before Israel goes and attacks Arafat's compound (which is misguided I think, since obviously either Arafat has no influence with the Hamas or even if he was supplying them with the explosives/arms, there's probably such a chain that taking him out won't disrupt it).

And since when does the matter of world opinion mean something is right or wrong? Most Muslim countries can't even say that the Palestinian side is wrong for killing others. Only one that I know of (and which escapes me for the moment) had the guts to say BOTH sides were terrorists.

If I'm ignorant, you show ME where the veil of knowledge can be lifted since YOU took the position first.

 

[DÛke]

...I think I've done that in *all* other threads in which you and I argued. This time, I think you should do it yourself.

I find it hard even being neutral at this moment. Isreal is guilty. Trying to be noble and saying I'll be neutral is just plain stupid *because* there are facts out there. Anyone who is watching the news, reading the papers, and just knowing what the heck is goin' on would know that Isreal is just rockin' the boat; it's like a hungery hound that finally broke its leash away...and guess what, it's only gettin' pets and treats from it's mama, the U.S., and the U.S.'s official b***h, U.K.

To quote someone, "the relationship of the U.S. to U.K. is exactly as the relationship of Clinton to Monica..."

End of my "opinion"...

 

[Spiderman]

I guess we're the only ones with time on our hands.

Let's start with this: The current Israeli military actions are in response to the attacks on Isreali citizens in the month of March, which has seen the death of about 120+ Israelis, the most since this started in 2000, including the Passover bombing that took the lives of most of them (I think). So if Israeli is guilty, the Palestinians are more so.

And please, before starting such a thread with a statement like "though nobody knows who the right people are," I suggest you read some history of Palestine, and some history of Isreal. Read it, and read it hard...and inform yourself.

I've read some and it seems the Palestinians started the violence way back in the 1920's....

 

[DÛke]

...I gotta go to class now. No time on my hand. Even if I did have time...it's an issue we've discussed over and over again. If you're really that interested in facts and the truth, get them from where you see fit, but *make sure* they're truthful, and unbiased...

In any case, I've formed a solid opinion based on facts. I wont discuss any of it here, with many that haven't read the history, haven't been following the story, or those who are just plain stupid.

You want answers? Time already told -- everything is out there.

 

[Svenmonkey]

DUke- When saying "though nobody knows who the right people are" I was talking about how the Israelis don't know who to target with their military, because anyone could be the next suicide bomber. And I have read plenty about Israel's history.

Oh, and regarding your latest comment, it was very hard to find any history or news that wasn't biased to some side, usually Israel. I tried to find a list of how many Palestinians were killed by Israel's military, and all I could find were hundreds of pages devoted to those killed by the Palestinians (not that they don't deserve remembrance, but I'm sure Israel has killed a lot more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis).

 

[Spiderman]

The problem is, DUke, is how do we know those are "facts", the ones you've based your opinion on?

SvenMonkey: Actually, I've found something that lists Palestinian casualties from last year Obviously from the name it's a tad selective; no Israeli casualties are listed for the same time frame (but which can be found elsewhere) and it's only from last year but it's somewhere to start.

 

[arhar]

To all:

You don't know what's truly happening there. Don't listen to anybody. EVERYBODY who has an opinion on this is biased. Duke is spewing lies, because he's biased - it's obvious. I don't want to get into yet another argument with him, because I KNOW I can't be objective - I don't want to do the same thing and twist the truth to show how MY PEOPLE are right, even though I know that Israel is absolutely right. So my suggestion would be just close this thread.

 

[DÛke]

...

No one needs to be sure of what I am basing my opinion upon. I already said that I will not discuss my "opinion" regarding that issue in here, because we'd be ridin' a roundabout...so if my facts are valid or not is irrelevant. The most important thing is that *I* know that I'm basing my opinion upon facts. I'm not a teacher, nor a visionary...so I will not try to teach my opinion, and I will not pretend that I have all the facts...but I assure you, with as little as I know, I can stand on a solid ground. Which ground would that be? A bit of knowledge goes a long way...

And Arhar, please grow up...for your sake. I could act like you and say "I know my people are right." <laughs> And you accuse me of lying or maybe twisting the "truth;" <grin> your truth is already twisted kid...don't blame me for that, blame your "ancestors."

 

[arhar]

I wish I was there in Israeli army right now... I just imagine having some fun with Arab families: hang the father by his entrails, and then rape the mother and daughter... Fun for the whole squad!

 

[Spiderman]

Okay, okay, enough of that...

DUke, I'm sorry you won't share your facts, so when you say "with as little as I know" and "I will not pretend I have all the facts" makes me think of the old adage "you know not enough to be an expert but just enough to be dangerous".

Oh well, this gave a little excitement for the day...

 

[Svenmonkey]

Arhar- If that was a joke, it was one that almost made me puke with disgust. I hope I just took it the wrong way.