Is red.....Falling apart?

I

Insane_Penguin

Guest
Odyssey....... a great time for Magic.....except for red....

Many combinations with red (such as RG, RW, and RB) are faltering to Finkel decks and Opposition decks

Although red has many good card (like blazing salvo and flame burst), it is extremely hard to findd a good creature in red.


So, is red, like some cruel imitation of Ransac, Running in, Dancing the pidgeon, and then making a triumphant retreat?

Tou tell me.
 
R

Ransac

CPA Trash Man
*sniff* I'm so touched that someone used one of my gimmicks in an analogy.


Okay, time to sue you.


*Fifty lawyers run up to Insane_Penguin and serve him subpeonas.*

Have fun.



Ransac, cpa trash man
 
H

Hetemti

Guest
All of Magic's good red creatures:

Mogg Fanatic
Jackal Pup
Fireslinger
Viashino Sandstalker/Cutthroat
Ball Lightning
Shard Phoenix
Shivan/2H Dragon

There ya go, red magi.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Let's just say that I currently have a red deck made that handles both Opposition AND Finkeltrator.
 
H

Hetemti

Guest
I know he meant Type Crap; but I included T2 cards on my list too...only everything in "standard" red is garbage.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Yes with red reduced to such sub-optimal spells as Flametongue Kavu, Prophetic Bolt, Urzas Rage, Ghitu Fire, Terminate, Void, Fire/Ice, Goblin Trenches, Lightning Angel, Raging Kavu, and Skizzik - its AMAZING anybody bothers to play the color at all!
:rolleyes:

It just goes to show that people can complain about anything.
If an atom bomb went off you`d probably complain it only went 'BANG!'.
 
T

theorgg

Guest
Hey, SACKMAN! You forgot to cook 'em!

*theorgg grabs the s'penas and chops them furiously with a machete, then puts them in a pot with Tobascco Sauce and Black Olives.
 
H

Hetemti

Guest
FTK: Just a Viashino Warrior (garbage common) with a CiP. A decent one, but still. It's a good uncommon, but it shoudln't be alone.

ProfBolt: It's good, but it's a purple card.

Urza's Rage: A big Volcanic Hammer. Uncounterable's nice, but red shouldn't have to wait to get the kicker mana, it should have already won.

Ghitu Fire: Wow Rolling Thunderball. And Rare to boot.

Terminate: Brown card.

Void: Haups remix. Spiffy, but only pwerful in a stagnant environment.

Fire/Ice: Purple

Goblin Trenches: Pink

Lighning Angel: Fuchia

Raging Kavu: You've got to be kidding me.

Skizzik: Yeeeehaw! I'm Ball Lightning! wait...no...I'm Viashino Cutthroat with an ability to make me rare. Playable, yes...but not enough with what little backup red has.
 
T

theorgg

Guest
Red's great creatures like Jackle Pup and Mogg Fantastic were placed in the wrong color... well, actually, just the theme was.

Green was suppose to have been the "Creature Color" that would feature the best of the best creatures.

Red actually had the best selection of weenies for quite a while in type two. Green's contributions to that were few and far between when compared to the fast red goodies.

They've finally figured out how to give red commons and uncommon creatures that DON'T kick too much ass with big red burn spells.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Is Finkel terrible because it`s 'Dark Blue' not a blue card? Is Absorb unplayable because its only 'Sky Blue'. What about the 'Turqoise' Mystic Snake?
If you are going to write a card off simply because it`s multicolored then you are playing in the wrong format.

Void is Jokulhaups? Are you insane? The two cards are completely different. Here is when Void and Jokulhaups do the same thing - I have Natures Revolt in play, the only creature otherwise is an Ornithopter and the only artifact is a Mox Diamond. Ok. NOW its a Jokulhaups. Saying that Void is a Jokulhaups is like saying Counterspell is the same as Lightning Bolt because they both kill a creature.

And red 'should have already won' before you get Kickered Rages. Yes it possibly SHOULD have done. But if it didnt then it can now win a game it would otherwise have lost in ANY other era of red spells.

Come on guys, youve got to admit that Hetemti is only complaining for the sake of complaining.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Actually, Hetemti does have a valid point.

Red...MONO Red...has kinda gotten a kick in the nuts when it comes to creatures, with very few exceptions.

Red has turned, to a large degree, into blue. It's *great* to splash, but you wouldn't want to run it alone.
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
What color ISN'T a splash color right now? Blue, perhaps. Green, maybe. But after Invasion block, mono-color decks are lying bleeding.
 
C

Chaos Turtle

Guest
Exactly. Try making a mono-blue deck that's competitive in Standard. Then tell me how much blue sucks right now because you just can't do it. Well, maybe you can make that Thought Devourer deck, but then again you can make a monored deck that will wipe the floor with it.

In fact, the only color I would even consider running alone right now is green, and then only if I want to lose badly to a deck that had the good sense to add red to their green.

Come on guys, youve got to admit that Hetemti is only complaining for the sake of complaining.
Click to expand...
Well, I'm not one to pick on people, but you certainly won't get any argument from me. But then, it's something I've grown used to.

As for the original point (which was, I believe, that Odyssey's red is substandard) I agree that there are no Jackal Pups or Ball Lightnings in the mix, but that's a good thing.

I think the black-lovers have a better argument here. Black's creatures and removal are luckluster compared to red's right now.

So red (and black) is taking a back seat for now. "Great!" I say. "Fine!" I say. I'm in love with the current environment, and I am sure that there is plenty of "tech" available that simply isn't being seen in the shadow of the current Finkel and Rage craze.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Actually, the original argument was that red's CREATURES suck in Odyssey. This, I can agree with. Red actually got some decent spells in Odyssey.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Thats because if you give red semi-decent creatures people will build Sligh and beat everything and everybody they ever have to play against.

I`m fairly sure the CPA isnt going to complain because you cant play a really fast Sligh deck in tournaments, is it? In fact I`m fairly sure everybody was happy to see mono-blue and mono-red disappear.
Only to have threads appear about blue and red being 'dead' colors.

Gee, you`re a fickle bunch.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Who's complaining? I'm giving a simple statement of fact. It is what it is, good or bad.

I don't think red turns into Sligh if the halfway-decent creatures you give it go into the 3 - 5 CC range, but oh well.
 
M

Mr_Pestilence

Guest
Urza's Rage, Skizzik, and Flametongue are among the best cards in Standard right now, but you have to mix in another color to have a good deck.

The hardest deck to beat right now is a good Opposition deck, because it has all the control elements AND a good beat down game.

Opposition keeps key creatures and lands tapped down, counterspells keep solutions off the board, spot removal such as Fire/Ice, Flametongue Kavu and Beast Attack eliminate any problems that make it into play, and you death comes in a few short turns.

REPRINT PYROBLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
REPRINT PYROBLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
REPRINT PYROBLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
REPRINT PYROBLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
REPRINT PYROBLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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