N
NeuroDeus
Guest
Go to this site http://logosresourcepages.org/magic-g.html. This guy explains why Magic is evil and takes parts from the Bible to confront ideas etc. To my own opinion this guy is just a religious fanatic.
D
Duel
Guest
His mistake is where he claims to prove 3 things:
1: His bible quotes against the occult refer to the working of magic spells. Either he believes that we actually CAN cast spells, or his reasoning is flawed.
2: He compares magic to various religons and rituals. First he claims that, since D&D is "Clearly" a tool for the occultist (Using a quote from the oh so infallible Washington Post, no less), and Peter Adkinson claims Magic is based on a D&D background, Magic must be a tool for the occultist. He offers no comparisons between the two (I personally see the link tenuous) and then further adds no examples of D&D using pagan rituals. He simply claims it does.
Moreover, when it comes to his comparison on the individual forces of magic (the colors and themes) he is both sporatic and vague. Claiming Wiccan roots for white magic, christian background for black (black is not, in all religons, the symbol of evil), and unspecified styles for red, green, and blue. I especially love the bit about "destructive power of the forests."
3: In his commentary, both on the addictive nature of magic and on the danger of associating yourself with evil characters, he flops, sseming to lack the energy to bring up the several viable (if not correct) points he earlier used. his quote from Corinthians is ridiculous, as he has yet to prove that magic is contrary to god's word. And his quote from romans is completely unrelated, having to do with people who "glorified him(god) not as god." I fail to see the point.
Oh, and a quote "the game also has a number of female players, in addition to the "white, male boys," Obviously the quotee, was not in the best condition for public speaking. Any non-male boys out there?
Meanwhile, he does nothing talking about the danger of associating with evil characters. His one sentence (plus 2 quotes) bring nothing about evil up. In fact, he couldn't find a quote (which are easy to find) commenting on how you can, say "find yourself becoming the evil sorcerer."
The essay is moderately well-written. A large improvement over the some of the pulpit-pounding I've heard. That actually worries me. This guy spent time researching it. Not completely, but some. We don't want people like this learning stuff. predjudice has little or nothing to do with knowledge, and I'd rather have them stupid.
1: His bible quotes against the occult refer to the working of magic spells. Either he believes that we actually CAN cast spells, or his reasoning is flawed.
2: He compares magic to various religons and rituals. First he claims that, since D&D is "Clearly" a tool for the occultist (Using a quote from the oh so infallible Washington Post, no less), and Peter Adkinson claims Magic is based on a D&D background, Magic must be a tool for the occultist. He offers no comparisons between the two (I personally see the link tenuous) and then further adds no examples of D&D using pagan rituals. He simply claims it does.
Moreover, when it comes to his comparison on the individual forces of magic (the colors and themes) he is both sporatic and vague. Claiming Wiccan roots for white magic, christian background for black (black is not, in all religons, the symbol of evil), and unspecified styles for red, green, and blue. I especially love the bit about "destructive power of the forests."
3: In his commentary, both on the addictive nature of magic and on the danger of associating yourself with evil characters, he flops, sseming to lack the energy to bring up the several viable (if not correct) points he earlier used. his quote from Corinthians is ridiculous, as he has yet to prove that magic is contrary to god's word. And his quote from romans is completely unrelated, having to do with people who "glorified him(god) not as god." I fail to see the point.
Oh, and a quote "the game also has a number of female players, in addition to the "white, male boys," Obviously the quotee, was not in the best condition for public speaking. Any non-male boys out there?
Meanwhile, he does nothing talking about the danger of associating with evil characters. His one sentence (plus 2 quotes) bring nothing about evil up. In fact, he couldn't find a quote (which are easy to find) commenting on how you can, say "find yourself becoming the evil sorcerer."
The essay is moderately well-written. A large improvement over the some of the pulpit-pounding I've heard. That actually worries me. This guy spent time researching it. Not completely, but some. We don't want people like this learning stuff. predjudice has little or nothing to do with knowledge, and I'd rather have them stupid.
H
Hetemti
Guest
Magic is a game.
Magic used to have a story.
Magic's story featured the forces of Earth, Fire, Air/Water, Good, and Evil.
Magic's Good paralelled Christian figures.
Magic's Evil paralelled Christian figures.
Magic's Evil characters inspired fear in Christians who did not have faith that their "Lord" would protect them.
Magic's Evil was abolished by the Crusaders.
Magic's Spirit died.
Magic's story turned into Gerrard and Crew Search For the Lost Treasure of Cap'N Crunch! (boo-yah)
Magic became crappy and even harder to explain to newbies.
Magic got bought by Satan.
Magic's new ads, with the bouncing Goblin Heros and dancing Rhoxii, are truly EVIL.
Magic is bur...destroyed with out chance of regeneration. (Sorry, forgot "buried" is to hard to understand)
__________
Didn't they realize when no Satan worshipers got up to fight the Catholic Anti-MtG campaign, Magic players weren't really in league with the Lord of Darkness? I pity those fools...
Magic used to have a story.
Magic's story featured the forces of Earth, Fire, Air/Water, Good, and Evil.
Magic's Good paralelled Christian figures.
Magic's Evil paralelled Christian figures.
Magic's Evil characters inspired fear in Christians who did not have faith that their "Lord" would protect them.
Magic's Evil was abolished by the Crusaders.
Magic's Spirit died.
Magic's story turned into Gerrard and Crew Search For the Lost Treasure of Cap'N Crunch! (boo-yah)
Magic became crappy and even harder to explain to newbies.
Magic got bought by Satan.
Magic's new ads, with the bouncing Goblin Heros and dancing Rhoxii, are truly EVIL.
Magic is bur...destroyed with out chance of regeneration. (Sorry, forgot "buried" is to hard to understand)
__________
Didn't they realize when no Satan worshipers got up to fight the Catholic Anti-MtG campaign, Magic players weren't really in league with the Lord of Darkness? I pity those fools...
H
Hawaiian mage
Guest
Oh, THIS article again... I've seen this before. You wanna know something funny about it though? Here, look at the links that are at the bottom of the page.
If you read through those, it's halarious!
N
NeuroDeus
Guest
"Let me issue a solemn warning to parents, Magic: The Gathering is dangerous because it conditions the minds of the players to be receptive to the occult and violence and those who really get into it become addicted. It becomes the focus of their lives."
I took this quote from the article. It says that Magic "conditions the minds of the players to be receptive to occult and violence". One issue I have never talked about on CPA about myself is occult and paranormal and that I spent my a lot of time reading books about those subjects. I do not "do" occult but I assure most people that if there is some occult in Magic it is just some fantasy an R&D member saw in a movie.
I also would like to note that Magic is mentioned even in the Pokemon articles and he continues stressing Magic is a source of "eviling" the children's mind.
I took this quote from the article. It says that Magic "conditions the minds of the players to be receptive to occult and violence". One issue I have never talked about on CPA about myself is occult and paranormal and that I spent my a lot of time reading books about those subjects. I do not "do" occult but I assure most people that if there is some occult in Magic it is just some fantasy an R&D member saw in a movie.
I also would like to note that Magic is mentioned even in the Pokemon articles and he continues stressing Magic is a source of "eviling" the children's mind.
Killer Joe
New member
just the "TRIX" deck or more specifically, "Force of Will", now THAT'S evil!
M
Multani
Guest
I haven't read the essay yet (I'm in the process of doing so as I type this.) but suffice to say, I find Duel's comments unsuprising comming from a "religious fanatic". The thing when debating with a religious person, is that their "evidence" is extremely limited. While science and logic have an overwhelming amount of sources. My advice to all is to disregard such essays, and dismiss them for what they truly are-blasphemy. These essays are the result of someone who has nothing better to do. He couldn't just preach his religion to his community. No. He had to attack the real world with (in my opinion) a "flawed theory".
I have nothing more to say on the subject.
I have nothing more to say on the subject.
H
Hawaiian mage
Guest
Yeah, I wouldn't listen to any one that thinks Quija Boards are communication tools of the devil...
C
Cateran Emperor
Guest
DISCLAIMER
The author of the linked work does not even remotely reflect the views of any normal, rational Christian.
First, did anyone else see that this was written in 1995? Notice that most of the games he mentioned that also had "satanic" and "occult" messages have long since died? Anyone played Rage recently? No? How about Hyborian Gates? Anybody? Hrmm, but what about the addiction to satanic practices...
Second, how on earth can he justify that the games someone plays reflects the person they are? Anybody played monopoly and instantly gone off to win a fortune in real estate? Anyone played Life and suddenly found themselves married and with children? And I know that after a good round of D&D you've all recently gone home with a teleport without error.
How many of you have played a multiplayer game and ended with the winner saying "Good night everybody, I have to get going. The next scheduled cross burning will be on Easter Sunday right?"
I've never laughed so hard as when he tried to extrapolate bible quotes to damn a mere game. The Bible should be used for reading and relflection, not for finding quotes to use when trying to start a new group for the Klan and their assorted buddies to gang up on.
[me]regains composure[/me]
Sorry, I don't like to have to say this sort of thing. To the aforementioned author:
Stop trying to put words in God's mouth. He's quite clear in his meaning if you just read it. They didn't have M:tG two millenia ago.
To the Lord of Trees: the disclaimer was tacked on just for you
The author of the linked work does not even remotely reflect the views of any normal, rational Christian.
First, did anyone else see that this was written in 1995? Notice that most of the games he mentioned that also had "satanic" and "occult" messages have long since died? Anyone played Rage recently? No? How about Hyborian Gates? Anybody? Hrmm, but what about the addiction to satanic practices...
Second, how on earth can he justify that the games someone plays reflects the person they are? Anybody played monopoly and instantly gone off to win a fortune in real estate? Anyone played Life and suddenly found themselves married and with children? And I know that after a good round of D&D you've all recently gone home with a teleport without error.
How many of you have played a multiplayer game and ended with the winner saying "Good night everybody, I have to get going. The next scheduled cross burning will be on Easter Sunday right?"
I've never laughed so hard as when he tried to extrapolate bible quotes to damn a mere game. The Bible should be used for reading and relflection, not for finding quotes to use when trying to start a new group for the Klan and their assorted buddies to gang up on.
[me]regains composure[/me]
Sorry, I don't like to have to say this sort of thing. To the aforementioned author:
Stop trying to put words in God's mouth. He's quite clear in his meaning if you just read it. They didn't have M:tG two millenia ago.
To the Lord of Trees: the disclaimer was tacked on just for you
M
Multani
Guest
I know. I guessed I kinda came pretty strong on the issue. It pities me to think that he can spread his ignorant views far and wide via the internet. Someday, fanatics like him will be the end of civilization.
N
NeuroDeus
Guest
How many of you have played a multiplayer game and ended with the winner saying "Good night everybody, I have to get going. The next scheduled cross burning will be on Easter Sunday right?"
My God, Cateran Emporer this is the funniest thing I have read lately.
My God, Cateran Emporer this is the funniest thing I have read lately.
A
Apollo
Guest
That was hilarious, CE.
I was reading through this, and I thought that he was an intelligent, if misguided, guy. Then I saw this quote:
I also liked:
I was reading through this, and I thought that he was an intelligent, if misguided, guy. Then I saw this quote:
Then, I realized he was just a wacko. Sheesh.
I also liked:
Now, some of you may be really into the game. But who can say it's the focus of their lives?
G
Gerode
Guest
"I should say a few words about Pogs (also called milk caps). I am concerned about pogs for the following reasons. First, many of them have occult symbols on them. Some of them have drawings of pagan gods and goddesses. Many are death oriented, containing drawings of skulls, skeletons, etc. I have seen some that are sensual. Others have shamanistic figures on them or witches. But, there are many that have sports figures on them or even Hollywood stars. Even if your child collects only the good pogs, if he trades them with others, he will be exposed to the bad ones. Do you want that exposure? Second, The QVC home shopping channel announcer made the following announcement attributing it to an organization called the Pog World Federation -- Every stack of pogs has its own aura. You concentrate on your ch'i. That is alarming because auras are rooted in Hindu beliefs and the ch'i is rooted in Taoism. Both have occult implications. Basically they are saying pogs have their own energy or life force and so do the players. To win you need to connect the two. That is the occult doctrine of pantheism. Finally, there is the element of gambling that concerns me. Do you want your child playing pogs "for keeps" as we used to say in marbles? I do not believe gambling glorifies God. "
This writer can make ANYTHING sound satanic. I'll be waiting for when he writes "The Truth about Fluffy Kittens" or "Beware of Babies."
This writer can make ANYTHING sound satanic. I'll be waiting for when he writes "The Truth about Fluffy Kittens" or "Beware of Babies."
D
DÛke
Guest
...is wrong with people!
I mean, you see freakin' air pollution, you see people smoking, you see people drinking AND driving, you see people doing all kind of drugs, and you see violence, you see prostitution, you see The Matrix, and you see a lot of more stuff...AND THEN, someone would come, and from ALL the crimes in the whole wide world, Magic comes to mind! Get a freakin' life, whomever thinks of such stupid ideas. I mean, there's a life going on behind us, and some of us sit and worry about Magic being "satanic" or whatever...
I think those people who sit and accuse without knowing are turely lifeless. I think they want to be heard, and sometimes, there's no other way to be heard other than to so place a blame, make judgment, or just be freakin' IGNORANT!
Magic is a freakin' CARD, yep, it's shocking: CARD game...it's a game! How could it be accused of ANYTHING more than a game!? I seriously pitty those who even THINK of Magic as more than it is.
You know, anyone who even tries to open their mouth, and talk about Magic, or any card game, in an unfondful way, is truely stupid. If I was THEM, I would be busy complaining about alcohol, smoking, drugs, crimes, and the various, MORE important things in life. Trust me, Magic and every other card game would NEVER even cross my mind.
To those who accuse Magic of whatever, here: "Look at what's important in life (surely not a bunch of cards), and most importantly, get a freakin' life."
Ok, thank you.
I mean, you see freakin' air pollution, you see people smoking, you see people drinking AND driving, you see people doing all kind of drugs, and you see violence, you see prostitution, you see The Matrix, and you see a lot of more stuff...AND THEN, someone would come, and from ALL the crimes in the whole wide world, Magic comes to mind! Get a freakin' life, whomever thinks of such stupid ideas. I mean, there's a life going on behind us, and some of us sit and worry about Magic being "satanic" or whatever...
I think those people who sit and accuse without knowing are turely lifeless. I think they want to be heard, and sometimes, there's no other way to be heard other than to so place a blame, make judgment, or just be freakin' IGNORANT!
Magic is a freakin' CARD, yep, it's shocking: CARD game...it's a game! How could it be accused of ANYTHING more than a game!? I seriously pitty those who even THINK of Magic as more than it is.
You know, anyone who even tries to open their mouth, and talk about Magic, or any card game, in an unfondful way, is truely stupid. If I was THEM, I would be busy complaining about alcohol, smoking, drugs, crimes, and the various, MORE important things in life. Trust me, Magic and every other card game would NEVER even cross my mind.
To those who accuse Magic of whatever, here: "Look at what's important in life (surely not a bunch of cards), and most importantly, get a freakin' life."
Ok, thank you.
P
Purple_jester
Guest
As a Church sermon, this is excellent. It uses examples and illustrative statements to make sure people reading or listening to it don't become bored. However, as a persuasive essay, it sucks. There is little or no hard evidence to back it up, and few sources of information other than the Bible.
Now, as much as I like the Bible, the book also has a couple of hundred different versions, editions or interpretations. Besides, when drawing evidence, on must turn to sources which more reflect the period in which the target audience lives. The usage of the Bible as a moral basis is fine, but as a textual basis, it leaves much to be desired.
I wouldn't quite classify the author as a complete religious fanatic. Fanatics are known to be all mouth and little meaning, and this guy writes too well for such.
The fact that this was written in 1995(?) means little. Articles like this will pop up for everything from RPG's to card games to comics till the end of time. That's just the way things are: for every thousand people enjoying a modern pastime, there will be one or two conservatives who will preach its evils. Well, let me tell you that there is evil in EVERYTHING, up to and including the Church. There's GOOD in everything, too.
It's when the nastiness gets out of hand that you stand up and put your foot down. So, until Magic becomes the source of war, famine, social injustice, bigotry and the like, I say, let the game be.
'nuff said.
Now, as much as I like the Bible, the book also has a couple of hundred different versions, editions or interpretations. Besides, when drawing evidence, on must turn to sources which more reflect the period in which the target audience lives. The usage of the Bible as a moral basis is fine, but as a textual basis, it leaves much to be desired.
I wouldn't quite classify the author as a complete religious fanatic. Fanatics are known to be all mouth and little meaning, and this guy writes too well for such.
The fact that this was written in 1995(?) means little. Articles like this will pop up for everything from RPG's to card games to comics till the end of time. That's just the way things are: for every thousand people enjoying a modern pastime, there will be one or two conservatives who will preach its evils. Well, let me tell you that there is evil in EVERYTHING, up to and including the Church. There's GOOD in everything, too.
It's when the nastiness gets out of hand that you stand up and put your foot down. So, until Magic becomes the source of war, famine, social injustice, bigotry and the like, I say, let the game be.
'nuff said.
L
littlesaltz
Guest
The following does not represent my view, it is merely to mock the author of the aforementioned article.
Beware parents! Religion is a horrible horrible thing. Firstly, it conditions minds to believe what it thinks is true, leaving them open to horrible thoughts about Satan. Futhermore, it tells them about some sort of "Almighty God" that should be praised and awed above all else! Religion starts jihad's, or "Holy Wars." Now tell me, how can war be holy?
That was an example of how everything can be made to look bad. Notice how I say "Horrible thoughts about Satan." I don't say whether they say that Satan is good or bad, merely that they are horrible. I also don't say what the "Almighty God" is.
The same goes for the article. The authors representation of the colors is inaccurate. He fails to mention that most players play for fun (though money can help). And finally, he gives absoulutly no examples (and yes, I know that I don't either, I'm sorry, this isn't an essay, it's a post).
A semi-outraged Saltz
Beware parents! Religion is a horrible horrible thing. Firstly, it conditions minds to believe what it thinks is true, leaving them open to horrible thoughts about Satan. Futhermore, it tells them about some sort of "Almighty God" that should be praised and awed above all else! Religion starts jihad's, or "Holy Wars." Now tell me, how can war be holy?
That was an example of how everything can be made to look bad. Notice how I say "Horrible thoughts about Satan." I don't say whether they say that Satan is good or bad, merely that they are horrible. I also don't say what the "Almighty God" is.
The same goes for the article. The authors representation of the colors is inaccurate. He fails to mention that most players play for fun (though money can help
). And finally, he gives absoulutly no examples (and yes, I know that I don't either, I'm sorry, this isn't an essay, it's a post).A semi-outraged Saltz
N
Nyx
Guest
Hmm, it just ocurred to me as I was about to go and take my cards out to summon a Devouring Strossos and send it out to trample my old elementary school, that even if I had a swamp handy, I have no idea how I'd turn it on its side to draw mana from it. After nearly a decade of attuning myself to the dark forces embodied in my cards, I can't even draw a single point of mana. If this priest could just look at the rules and understand how to cast real spells, I must really suck. I'm going to go stick my head under a rock now. Maybe I'll be visited by Phyrexian Imps who will whisper advice into my ears or give me a Mox Jet. I'm pretty sure I could turn a necklace sideways...
S
Sleepy
Guest
so what have you got against smoking DÛke?
N
Namielus
Guest
I have two word that completely discredit this writer, "Holy Water".
All of us followers of satin could easly use that to say that he follows us too. Think about it what is the difference between water and 'holy water'. Well a preist enchants the ho---, wait a minute the preist is EVIL HE ENCHANTS THINGS, WORK OF SATIN!!
Etc...
Etc...
Etc...
The writer is clearing using fear to pose his readers. What seperates the good from the evil.
The Good rules with love and trust.
The Evil rules with hate and fear.
All of us followers of satin could easly use that to say that he follows us too. Think about it what is the difference between water and 'holy water'. Well a preist enchants the ho---, wait a minute the preist is EVIL HE ENCHANTS THINGS, WORK OF SATIN!!
Etc...
Etc...
Etc...
The writer is clearing using fear to pose his readers. What seperates the good from the evil.
The Good rules with love and trust.
The Evil rules with hate and fear.
M
Multani
Guest
Here's an interesting site with INTELLIGENT debates, and discussions. It's very amusing with a hilarious twist to it.
Check it out.
http://www.angelfire.com/ky/nogod/index.html
Check it out.
http://www.angelfire.com/ky/nogod/index.html