B
BigBlue
Guest
I think I'm the only one in our play group who owns one... Needless to say I'm not trading her to the Angel players...
Let's not forget in the early days when there were only a couple of "counterspells", like Counterspell, Power Sink, and Spell Blast. UU isn't that bad then. Elementals have been gone a while - same with red with the Fire and Earth. No one played them unless you had a really limited card pool.
White is one of the better colors that could handle almost everything; it also had Balance, Armageddon, and Wrath of God as some of the more powerful global effects in the game. Still, back then and now you don't see too many mono-white decks winning overall and consistently... and that's the way it should be with any color.
White is one of the better colors that could handle almost everything; it also had Balance, Armageddon, and Wrath of God as some of the more powerful global effects in the game. Still, back then and now you don't see too many mono-white decks winning overall and consistently... and that's the way it should be with any color.
T
train
Guest
Nevinyrral's Disk...
That's all I have to say...
And White, Red, and Green could handle it...
That's all I have to say...
And White, Red, and Green could handle it...
R
Reverend Love
Guest
Spiderman
I completely agree with the statement above.
Here's what Mark Rosewater said on Monday about blue...
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
Behold, Spidey is a most powerful thread necromancer...
Seriously though, what took so long for this to happen? This whole issue with blue has been the case for years. Was there some reason to hold off until now?
And while this resolution may or may not have positive implications for Standard, Extended would seem to have enough blue left over (for now). Legacy's most broken cards aren't necessarily blue at all (Survival of the Fittest, Gobline Welder). But even if they didn't print any blue cards in the next expansions, Vintage has enough for blue to remain the most powerful color no matter what...
Seriously though, what took so long for this to happen? This whole issue with blue has been the case for years. Was there some reason to hold off until now?
And while this resolution may or may not have positive implications for Standard, Extended would seem to have enough blue left over (for now). Legacy's most broken cards aren't necessarily blue at all (Survival of the Fittest, Gobline Welder). But even if they didn't print any blue cards in the next expansions, Vintage has enough for blue to remain the most powerful color no matter what...
I was pretty sure there were more recent threads about blue, but when I went back in General and here for the last couple of years, this was the only one that was quickly identifiable as relevant
Beats me why it's coming up now (in public). Perhaps future explanations are forthcoming...
Beats me why it's coming up now (in public). Perhaps future explanations are forthcoming...
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
I don't want to be overly pessimistic here, but it seems like at this point the best-case scenario is "too little, too late." Windfall/Mind's Desire/Tolarian Academy/Time Spiral/Timetwister/Time Walk/Thirst for Knowledge/Force of Will/Mana Drain/Counterspell/Intuition/Ancestral Recall/Dream Halls/Mind over Matter/Morphling/Ophidian/Hurkyl's Recall/Brain Freeze/High Tide/Frantic Search/Brainstorm/Cloud of Faeries/Palinchron/Donate/Curiosity/Fact or Fiction/Parallax Tide/Braingeyser/Stroke of Genius/Mana Short/Treachery/Opposition/Old Man of the Sea/Boomerang/Snowfall/Accumulated Knowledge/Memory Lapse/Mana Leak/Force Spike/Daze/Forbid/Prosperity/Impulse/Stifle/Tradewind Rider/Standstill/Arcane Laboratory/Back to Basics/Tinker/Gush/Misdirection/Spiketail Hatchling/Cowardice/Upheaval/Deep Analysis/Future Sight/Fabricate/Thoughtcast/Trinket Mage/etc./etc./etc. have already been printed.
There is an absurd amount of cards that have contributed to blue's being the best color in multiple formats, sometimes by itself and sometimes in combination with any number of the other colors, over the years. All of these cards are not going to just go away. Saying, "we won't do it anymore" isn't going to fix anything--not that I'm suggesting an alternative solution. I don't think there is a satisfactory solution to this, especially not in the short term.
Rosewater's article came across as, "Blue has been too good. We are going to stop making blue the strongest color in future sets. I mean, look at how good blue is. Wow, blue has really been way too powerful. Don't believe me? Here, look at these statistics..."
EVERYONE who has been playing Magic for any significant length of time KNOWS how good blue is and even casual players generally have a vague idea of how well it has done in tournaments. An article to tell us this is entirely unnecessary. If they want to announce that R&D plans on weakening blue in future sets, that's fine, but maybe the information in an article should be more...informative. Like, "There are some really weird reasons for not having begun this process earlier. Obviously it is too late to start earlier, but I can assure you that we will be doing it now..."
Yeah, blue has more restricted cards than the other colors. Yes, blue has been made ridiculously versatile. Oh, and of course blue has been the most powerful color in recent blocks (which couldn't possibly be a direct result of blue getting the best cards in virtually every set for however long now). Blue has tremendous capacity for card advantage in comparison to the other colors? Really? I mean, I couldn't have learned that by playing the game. I only realized it after Mark Rosewater pointed it out...
There is an absurd amount of cards that have contributed to blue's being the best color in multiple formats, sometimes by itself and sometimes in combination with any number of the other colors, over the years. All of these cards are not going to just go away. Saying, "we won't do it anymore" isn't going to fix anything--not that I'm suggesting an alternative solution. I don't think there is a satisfactory solution to this, especially not in the short term.
Rosewater's article came across as, "Blue has been too good. We are going to stop making blue the strongest color in future sets. I mean, look at how good blue is. Wow, blue has really been way too powerful. Don't believe me? Here, look at these statistics..."
EVERYONE who has been playing Magic for any significant length of time KNOWS how good blue is and even casual players generally have a vague idea of how well it has done in tournaments. An article to tell us this is entirely unnecessary. If they want to announce that R&D plans on weakening blue in future sets, that's fine, but maybe the information in an article should be more...informative. Like, "There are some really weird reasons for not having begun this process earlier. Obviously it is too late to start earlier, but I can assure you that we will be doing it now..."
Yeah, blue has more restricted cards than the other colors. Yes, blue has been made ridiculously versatile. Oh, and of course blue has been the most powerful color in recent blocks (which couldn't possibly be a direct result of blue getting the best cards in virtually every set for however long now). Blue has tremendous capacity for card advantage in comparison to the other colors? Really? I mean, I couldn't have learned that by playing the game. I only realized it after Mark Rosewater pointed it out...
Killer Joe
New member
What is the most identifyable aspect of blue?
~Counter Magic Spells?
~Card Drawing Spells?
~Bounce Spells?
No other color shoud have these abilities but they ARE, in fact, good abilities. And who better to have them than blue? They should keep up making these cards but maybe reduce the number printed. Maybe a set could have:
~20% White Cards
~20% Black Cards
~20% Green
~20% red
~15% blue
~10% other like artifacts/non-basic lands and gold cards.
Hey, Black, Green and White certainly got their day-in-the-sun in the Torment & Judgement sets.
~Counter Magic Spells?
~Card Drawing Spells?
~Bounce Spells?
No other color shoud have these abilities but they ARE, in fact, good abilities. And who better to have them than blue? They should keep up making these cards but maybe reduce the number printed. Maybe a set could have:
~20% White Cards
~20% Black Cards
~20% Green
~20% red
~15% blue
~10% other like artifacts/non-basic lands and gold cards.
Hey, Black, Green and White certainly got their day-in-the-sun in the Torment & Judgement sets.
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
Torment was intended to "black-heavy" or something dumb like that. I think the concept of making with one color intentionally stronger than the others is a bad idea.
Anyway, Deep Analysis and Wonder are from Torment and Judgment respectively, so blue is by no means weakened in those sets.
I don't think R&D wants to print fewer blue cards so much as they want to make sure that new blue cards are as weak as or weaker than cards in the other colors...
Anyway, Deep Analysis and Wonder are from Torment and Judgment respectively, so blue is by no means weakened in those sets.
I don't think R&D wants to print fewer blue cards so much as they want to make sure that new blue cards are as weak as or weaker than cards in the other colors...
T
train
Guest
All I have to say is that mono-blue is winning FNM all over the place...
Hosed - I think not...
Blue is still overpowered and still sucks...
"I was right all along - It is broken..."
Hosed - I think not...
Blue is still overpowered and still sucks...
"I was right all along - It is broken..."
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
Well, even if were to leave blue out entirely in new sets, it has enough good cards by now to remain the best color. I guess the only way to get around that would be to print broken cards for the other colors (lots of them) or to ban the problem blue cards everywhere. Neither of those options is particularly appealing, so I think the problem will continue to go unsolved...train said: