Is blue getting the shaft?

[EricBess]

When was the last time you saw someone win with a mono-white deck? Mono-green?

Okay, mono-red and mono-black are viable and both green and white are getting close, but the point is that just because mono-blue isn't good enough right now, everyone's complaining that blue is getting the shaft.

Sure, Counterspell is leaving, and that's certainly a hit, but from what I'm seeing, blue is still a very strong secondary color in a lot of decks out there and will be for some time. To the point where most of the best decks will still be running blue.

So, while blue mages everywhere are bemoaning their fate, they are still winning tournaments very strongly.

So, is blue really getting the shaft? I don't think so. It makes me nervous that R&D seems to claim that they are intentionally cutting back on blue right now.

Put it this way. During Masque block, there were more Rishadan Ports being played than Mountains. Red was really bad. For a long time, anyone playing a Forest in any T2 tournament was laughed at.

Now, blue is supposedly at it's all time weakest that it's going to be, but Islands are still everywhere.

Anyone else have an opinion?

 

[Spiderman]

I'm not worrying about. Colors are going to ebb and flow. Today it could be blue's turn to go down a bit, but it'll come back up.

 

[train]

I think Blue could go down for a couple years personally...

If It's run in all the winning decks in standard... it's too strong...

 

[Nightstalkers]

right now, blue is getting stomped by big creatures, and lack of counterspells which work.

They should bring back Power Sink...

 

[EricBess]

Originally posted by Spiderman
I'm not worrying about. Colors are going to ebb and flow. Today it could be blue's turn to go down a bit, but it'll come back up.

But that's my point. I don't think blue is weak right now. I think blue is still very strong. Obviously, it needs to run with a different color, but it's still played heavily. It makes me worry about what's going to happen when they decide to let blue "make a comeback".

 

[Nightstalkers]

I'm worried about when players finally figure out ways to foil the stompy attack

*cough*Ensnaring*cough*Bridge*cough**cough*

 

[Reverend Love]

Blue's always had trouble in Standard running solo.

 

[train]

Wasn't it Buehler's mono-blue that won worlds?...

 

[Nightstalkers]

So? blue is just a bit harder to learn to use than the other colors.

it doesn't take a genious to make a good Green stompy, but it takes some thought to build a balance of blue counter, and creature control.

 

[Mr_Pestilence]

I've heard this argument for years, but I disagree. It doesn't much skill to cram 30 counterspells into a deck, some card drawing, and a couple of Morphlings or Millstones.

Sad to say, but Magic has really been de-skilled lately. None of the dominant decks are hard to play once you see them a couple of times. And, the "pre-made" decks are so efficient its almost impossible to build a viable rogue deck.

I think the real skill is in limited play, but some newbie who rips open a few bombs can still take a seasoned, skilled player with a relatively low power deck to school.

The internet has been the best and worst thing to happen to Magic. Highly efficient decks are disseminated quickly, while "original" deck ideas are pushed aside, while at the same time the skill of building your own decks is geatly eroded.

 

[Nightstalkers]

I don't like to use Blue too much either... just my fun decks use it

oh sure I like to rag on train a little, but who doesn't like to joke around?


But blue has its subtleties, in T1 I wouldn't be surprised if a counterdeck fell to an old newbie trample deck, burn, or even necro/regen deck. Blue is just another color and can be foiled by our friend green, and red. Whats depressing though is the fact that noone in most area's are playing T1. Ask Mr. P here, the one who was down there playing at his tournament loved it just because we could use any darned card we wanted (excluding a few...).


Sure I'd like to see a tourney using the old school newbie decks. I mean before all this gobbletygook about Urza's saga and crap started, Good old fashioned mayhem!

 

[Spiderman]

EricBess: Oh, I see what you're saying. Well, I don't really keep close tabs on the tourney scene so I don't know whether it's "weak" compared to before. I remember all the brouhaha about Fact and Fiction and that was the last blue card I remember that made a big splash (undoubtably there's later ones )

Since blue lacks damage-dealing spells and a mediocre creature base, aside from a Merfolk beatdown deck, it's usually a combo color. So maybe since there hasn't been any combos with blue in it lately, it's considered watered-down?

Mr. P: I disagree with your disagreement If that were the case, blue would have been dominating tourneys all these years. As we know, it hasn't so play skill still is a factor when playing against blue (and really with blue, since you need to know when to counter).

 

[train]

Blue Stinks...

And doesn't need to be any stronger than a combo/splash color... That's MHO...

As for decks that win... I would really like to see a non-nen-tech deck just romp all over the net decks...

Kindof like the Non-slide R/W deck I made in the decks forum...

 

[Spiderman]

What makes a "tech" deck? Where it's discussed? Who it comes from? What cards are in it?

 

[train]

Tech is something that can handle a situation - as is almost completely overlooked when deck testing occurs...

A good example for Tech is something like Cease Fire.

It was perfect against Psychatog decks that I played against, because they would upheaval, floating mana to play the tog, and responding to the upheaval I'd play cease fire...

If they counter the cease fire they don't have the mana to play the tog... if they don't counter it - they can take mana burn... This forced them to worry about it each of the next few games... Same for Oblation...

It's something like CoPs being run - something so simple, yet powerful enough to win the game.

Against A goblin/sligh deck - CoP Red is a game clincher...

Against Mono-black, same for CoP Black...

People just don't account for those to be in decks or sideboards anymore...

So they're "TECHnology" that "surprises" people...

 

[Spiderman]

From what you're saying though, it sounds like it's situational against one or two type of decks. When I think "tech", I think of something that can handle the majority of the expected field, like when Donate/Illusions came out.

Basically a "rogue" deck that no one expects might have some tech in it.

Or a Net deck could have tech (once it's widely known and what a rogue deck might become once it's played).

 

[Mikeymike]

EB, I totally hear your point and at times I wondered the same myself.

I do, however, think that blue will start to fall a lot more to the wayside once Odyssey block and 7th rotates out - it will lose Tog, Cunning Wish, Wonder, Compulsion, Counterspell, Force Spike, Memory Lapse and more. MaRo has come out and said that Wonder turned out to be over-powered, and it was not intended to be that strong.

Granted it can be debated that those cards will be replaced by equally powerful blue cards in Mirrodin block, I just don't think that is going to happen.

I feel both OnBC and 8th back-up my assesment. Blue simply is not played in OnBC, and you saw the 8th spoiler. Blue appears due for a serious punch in the gut.

 

[train]

When i think of Tech decks - it mainly deals with the sideboard...

But a good example of one is the R/W deck Rakamir created a thread for...

It does well against all types of decks, but implements simple stuff that has been overlooked - Akroma's Blessing, and White Knights in this instance... The Blessing Specifically...

With the Sideboard - It pretty much assures it can handle the field.

It is not however, a deck anyone is planning to play against on the tour...

In this instance, if it did well enough - it would be a Mad Tech deck...

"Romp - you spell it R-O-M-P... okay Kai?..."

 

[BigBlue]

WotC is just weird.

They make the correct call that Blue is overpowered, it isn't even debatable. Then they begin raping it of basically all of it's abilities. I don't understand why CS was ever made a common. It should be uncommon, and should probably cost UUU. The "color wheel" as it were has basically been thrown out the window. In earlier days Blue was the color of Air and Water, what is left from that? Gone are the Air and Water Elementals, gone are the Merfolk being replaced by Squid. I personally think someone at WotC decided that White should be the color, as the color of Goodness. They give them the most efficient weenies (and always have), Flying, and continue to give them adequate control and life gain. I have always felt that White was the color with the most control... Other than single lands, there is an answer for everything in White, Single or global Enchantments, Artifacts, and Creatures. And sending them to the Graveyard or removal from the game are much more powerful than Bounce, and in most cases it is undercost.

Look at say Terror vs Swords? Sure, you give them life, but it only costs W, the creature can be any size or color, and it removes them for good. Plus, if you need life you can remove your own creatures as they are dying. Even if it cost WW, it would still be a great spell. And compare how many creatures have Pro Black to those with Pro white sometime... (there are almost twice as many)

Serra Vs Sengir is another good comparison. Serra can block another attacker (other than the vampire) and still attack every turn, with Castle or Parapet it laughs at the vampire.

I really think White is the new Blue in WotC eyes. Of course I've always felt it was more powerful, if underplayed. It's control and quickness mesh with all the other colors as well or more than Blue. It isn't the color of really bad big creatures any more (Personal Incarnation).

 

[Mikeymike]

I really think White is the new Blue in WotC eyes. Of course I've always felt it was more powerful, if underplayed. It's control and quickness mesh with all the other colors as well or more than Blue. It isn't the color of really bad big creatures any more (Personal Incarnation).

I take it that you have yet to be beaten senseless by Akroma then .

I definitely agree about your color wheel statement, WotC justs seems to make up and/or bend the rules as it goes along huh?