Invasion T2 Decks

[Gizmo]

If I was playing Magic right here right now, I`d be playing with this:

CounterWrath
v1.7

3 Power Sink
4 Counterspell
4 Absorb
3 Thwart
1 Foil

2 Soothsaying
4 Fact Or Fiction

2 Seal Of Removal
3 Dominate
4 Wrath Of God

1 Tsabo`s Web

4 Air Elemental
(35)

1 Dust Bowl
2 Coastal Tower
4 Adarkar Wastes
6 Plains
12 Island
(25)

SB:
3 Chill
2 Stronghold Machinist
3 Misdirection
3 Last Breath
3 Disenchant
1 Tsabo`s Web


And if I wasn`t using that, I`d be using this:

Evil Fish
v1.3

3 Tidal Visionary
2 Faerie Squadron
4 Vodalian Zombie
3 Galina`s Knight
4 Lord Of Atlantis
2 Hate Weaver
3 Jolting Merfolk
(21)

2 Seal Of Removal
3 Sleeper`s Robe
2 Withdraw
4 Counterspell
2 Undermine
3 Spite/Malice
(16)

3 City Of Brass
3 Adarkar Wastes
4 Underground River
5 Swamp
8 Island
(23)

SB
4 Chill
1 Withdraw
3 Wash Out
4 Rising Waters
3 Dread Of Night


So there.

 

[PTQ]

I just have this feeling, and I don't know why, that fish decks are not going to do as hot as everyone thinks. I think it may be that they are too slow to race other beatdown decks, and too lacking in control for good answers to everything else. I don't know...I've just never liked decks that don't have a definite focus.

...but I'm probably wrong...

I also think that City of Brass in an enviorment with Ports is just a bad idea. Now they can lock out one of your multi-lands AND deal a point of damage to you every turn.

[Edited by PTQ on 10-19-00 at 03:09 PM]

 

[Zadok001]

And Gizmo did speak down from on high, and he did say, these are the great decks, and it was so... J/K!

Well, since I've been working on a R/B Pyre Zombie deck since Invasion was released, I don't have much to say on the topic of U/W control... Except that I'd sometimes perfer a Jeweled Spirit to an Air Elemental. Yah, I know, you've already discussed your reasoning in that choice. And I agree, Air Elemental is a beter choice. But I can't shake the feeling that there's SOMETHING better, somewhere...

 

[FoundationOfRancor]

U/W control: I have played around with this deck type before, and Air Elemental is the only decent kill card (unless you want to splash a dragon legend in). Looks good.

Fish deck: Is EXTREMELY powerful. Very, very very, good. But I suggest parralax tides...they and sleeper robe really make the deck. The deck just cant keep up without the tide, and the robe gives you awesome advantage *and* gives you evasion!

 

[Gizmo]

"But I can't shake the feeling that there's SOMETHING better, somewhere..."

There is, but it`s in Extended.


CounterWrath is 95% finished - it needs two Opportunity, but seeing as I cant` use them I have to scout around for other options. Acc Knowledge seems the only realistic choice though and I don`t much want to have to find four slots, though, so might go without.

 

[FoundationOfRancor]

Fish:
For the 1cc slot;

Im playing around with

Storm Scape apprentice
Faire Squardron
and you have added a creature I had not yet considerd: Tidal Visionary

I really like the Visionary, it goes incredibly well with the knights (And in this version, the weavers)

 

[Zadok001]

Hey, Giz, I don't supposed you'd mind awfully if I use your decklists as playtest dummies, neh?

 

[Daenen]

But can either of them beat a good BlastoGeddon deck? In my area (St. Louis), BlastoGeddon is THE deck to beat. Remember how Stompy was the standard deck in Type 2 for a long time? If your deck didn't beat Stompy, it wasn't worth playing, and all that stuff. My question is, can either of your decks beat Stompy?

 

[Purple_jester]

Just one question Giz, in Fish, would the Rootwater Thief be a bad choice? If not, they why not use it?

 

[Gizmo]

Daenen - CounterWrath cannot lose to BlastoGeddon, simply straight up cannot lose. Okay, it`s lost like 3 out of 20+ games so it CAN lose, but only when they get perverse draws (like casting 2 Geddons and turn 4). To beat CW a Blastogeddon deck needs to be more like a weenie deck, with 8-12 2cc 2/2s, then it might get us, but if it`s a deck based around BoPs, Elves, Trees, then Noble Panther and Blasty, then it will lose like 95% of games. You only have about 3/4 spells in the game, and if you stop one fat monster with a counter then you can absorb a few hits off a 2/2 until you have enough mana to Wrath and counter his geddon, and then you win. It`s really hard to lose to Geddon with this.

Fish is harder, but it has countermagic, bounce, Prot-Green monsters up the kazoo (VZombie, TVisionary) and if you need it Wash Out or Perish in the SB. I think it has everything you need to stop BlastyGeddon

Jester - I don`t like 1-power Fish. My deck is trying to kill him, not faff around with his library. They are pretty good but my style is to kill first, faff later. But I see that pretty much everybody else is using them, although everybody else is using Merfolk Trader, and that`s total jank.

 

[Gizmo]

And if I wasn`t using any of those decks, I`d be using red spells, but they aren`t finished yet and get Chilled out really easily. I`m going to build the G/R version to see how it goes.

 

[Griffith_se]

I'm not the best player in the world, maybe not even average.

I played a fish deck simular to Yours, and got beat up by B/R LD (pyre zombie, Blazing Spector, Stone Rain Rain of Tears, Stuff like that). I think FoR is right Tide might come in handy.

Oh, and another thing, mine had alot of pain lands too and that also caused Me to self-destruct.
Maybe I'm just a worse player than I thought.

I'm interested to know how You would handle the Problems 'I'm' having, with 'Your', Fish deck (A little wisdom please).

I'll bet Your going to say Counterspells.

Thanks


[Edited by Griffith_se on 10-20-00 at 07:38 AM]

 

[Killer Joe]

Gizmo: I put together the deck you last posted on the "U/B Pile" thread, and WOW! What a 'beatdown' deck it is.
I really think some variant of B/U "Fish" is going to be good in the new T2 environment.

 

[Gizmo]

Griffith-Se - I`m not the best player in the world either, not by a way. But I`m getting there, slowly but surely...
Anyway, I have no problem about using Tides, the Spite/Malice were Tides in my last version. And yes, we have found that Fish doesn`t like the red removal, but the SB of Chill (and possibly Misdirects if you lose the Waters) helps a lot. I think you lose the first to burn, but hope to pull back after SB.

And I think that Crusade and Lord Of Atlantis are the only two cards left in T2 that make true beatdown viable.

 

[Griffith_se]

Did You ever consider Sky weaver over Hate Weaver?
I was just thinking that the evasion might be able to hand out more of a beating (with Sleepers Robe card advantage too) than the fire breathing in some cases.
Maybe, umm, I dont know, what do You think?

[Edited by Griffith_se on 10-20-00 at 02:27 PM]

 

[Gizmo]

I have more blue creatures than black/white creatures. And generally the ability to make the merfolk 4/2 is going to make people think twice about blocking. I think the Hate Weaver is just a better ability all round and all Fish decks (esp those using the 1/2 Thief) should use him.

Been nipping and tucking:

CounterWrath
-1 Dominate
-1 Soothsaying
-1 Fact Or Fiction
+4 Accumulated Knowledge


Red Deck Invades
v1.4+

3 Kris Mage
4 Rogue Kavu
2 Skittish kavu
3 Skizzik

4 Seal Of Fire
3 Assault/Battery
2 Shock
3 Scorching Lava (Boa, Chill Apparition, Nether Spirit)
3 Urza`s Rage
3 Rhystic Lightning
3 Hammer Of Bogardan
3 Mages Contest
1 Lightning Blast

1 Archeological Dig
2 Shivan Oasis
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Rishadan Port
12 Mountain

SB
4 Earthquake
3 Boil
3 Balduvian Horde
2 Lithophage
3 Tranquility

 

[Duel]

Okay, for b/u control, has anyone considered clous sprite as a 1cc drop?

Okay. I know it's not: Fish, a blocker, or versatile.

It is: a 1cc drop with an evasion ability and a power above 0. How many black/blue creatures can say that in t2? 1.

Note- It has been pointed out to me that Rampart crawler's ability is technically evasion. To that I reply: Poo.

 

[Gizmo]

You only really want a 1cc creature to stick a Sleeper`s Robe on, and at that point it gains evasion anyway. What your eally want are creatures that stand alone if you don`t get a robe, and I think the Cloud Sprite is too weak to do that.

 

[Daenen]

I wanted to comment on your CounterWrath deck. You and I were both wrong. It is about even, pre-sideboard. Green has Submerge, but BlastoGeddon can recover from a Wrath of God pretty easily.

Here is the deck I am using for BlastoGeddon:

4 Blastoderm
4 Armageddon

4 Noble Panther
4 Armadillo Cloak
4 Harrow

4 Elvish Archers (1G, 2/1, First Strike, awesome)
4 Llanowar Knight
4 Seal of Cleansing

4 Birds of Paradise

15 Forest
5 Plains
4 Brushlands

Haven't developed a Sideboard, but I can use just about anything. Story Circle, Tranquility, Tranquil Grove, more Disenchants (or stuff like them), Creeping Mold, Uktabi Orangutang, etc.

This deck and your CounterWrath are pretty good match-ups. The shortest game between the two was 13 rounds. The average is 16

 

[Duel]

Daenen: Wait, as I see it, you have 8 "counter this" spells in blastogeddon (4 geddons, 4 blasto) and they aren't game winners, usually. Everything else is mostly background noise to a control deck.

Besides, it ain't pretty when he counters your harrow.....

Gizmo: how does counter-wrath do against nether-go or black-red control? It seems to me that it would face some problems there...
"Swamp, rituals, nether spirit!"
"I foil that!"
See?
am I wrong here?