I need to know the name of this artifact

Discussion in 'Single Card Strategies' started by Killer Joe, May 15, 2006.

  1. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    You've played it? :)
  2. Killerbob Official CPA European Guy

    I admit that it can be hard to tell how strong a certain decktype will be. Not because its difficult to build a deck like affinity (this is not a creative deck, its easy), but because it can be hard to tell how good the players will be to create decks that can beat it.

    But I still think the broken cards might "slip through" intentionally. I dont know, but I think its very probable. They are only a few people, but someone actually created every specific card. I believe this guy works fulltime at Wizards. How can he miss it? I dont believe a card is made in 30 seconds. This is a major bussiness. Every single card needs lots of work. At some point his workgroup will evaluate this card. Is it worth printing? Is it interresting? Are there ethical problems? Problems with law? Is this card broken? Wil it be a rare, an uncommon or a common? Its a long process. I cant believe that noone asked "What if I have 2 of these and sacs one?". This card has "COMBO" written with big letters on it.

    I know that I´m a little harsh, but generally I dont believe a word of what what they say. They have always some kind of logical explanation, but their logic changes now and then, and is rarely consistent.
    A while ago they decided to change the way time vault works. NOT because of the newly flamevault combo, this was just a coincident. The problem had been there for years, and they wanted to fix it. Right...coincident...if the problem had been there for years, why fix it right now?
    And then theres the usual stuf, basically "We are just some cool players like you, who wants to have some fun". No your´e not. You are part of a multimillion dollar bussiness, and youre are doing your work, which is making magic sell as good as possible. And they are actually so good at it that I dont believe in random "slip throughs".

    But they have earned my respect in the overall way that they have handled the game. When I started back in 94, I didnt believe that the game would still be interresting 12 years after. They would probably be tempted at inflating the cards, sellng lots of cards for some time, but soon killing the game. But they didnt. Not much. They choose a long-term strategy. Good for players, good for bussiness. Someone at Wizards has proven to be very competent :)
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Like I (kinda) said above, there's only a small amount of people on the R&D team. They can't think of everything. Since the combo also revolves around saccing the Guides, it depends if any prominent decks of that time involved saccing so they'd think of it. During Mirage times, I'm thinking not... well, maybe the ProsBloom deck, but you only needed one of each card of the combo, not two.

    Like I said, we don't have the full story of what went on behind the scenes back then.

    Do they let "broken" cards through "intentionally"? Maybe.... and maybe not. They've said they do like to push the envelope, that some strong cards are let through because frankly, otherwise every set would have the perception of being a "Homelands" or "Fallen Empires". Sometimes they judge correctly that the card is just strong enough, sometimes the card goes over the top. So you can decide whether that means "intentional".

    But I don't believe they let through cards that are broken outright from the get-go.
  4. Lythand Veteran CPA Member

    I'll have to agree with Spidey on this one. They have to let a few cards have a little power, but sometimes I don't think they fully evaluate the potential. And with all the cards out there, I am sure its not to easy to find all the right combos and abilities. Not to mention when the project for a set gets rolling, and its time to hit the printers, they are more worried about getting the set out at that point then totaly finding all the flaws. An d that goes with any product. Its seems its always better in America to sell a slightly malfuntioning product ASAP and fix the flaws later, then to work it out completely and sell it to near perfect.

    Oh well. Make a better mousetrap, along comes the better mouse.
  5. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Brood of Cockroaches + Aluren + Altar of Dementia = Infinite.
  6. Lythand Veteran CPA Member

    Thats not infinite..you have to pay a life to get the cockroaches back..and if you only have 20 life..well you only have 19 uses.
  7. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    The man speaks the truth, says I! You combo is limited!!!!!!!!!!!!! TO THE TAR AND FEATHERS!!!!!!

    *The crowd stares at Ransac and pummels him into the ground.*

    Soul Warden can take care of the life loss.

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  8. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    But the Cockroaches don't bounce back into your hand until the end of the turn...
  9. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    You can still play them as instants via Aluren. So, after they return, play the cockroaches again. Unless the rules have changed since I last studied them (which is quite possible), the process should be able to repeat until you are satisfied.

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  10. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I don't know. I think you can play the Cockroaches with Aluren (whenever, since Aluren lets you play them as an instant), sac them, and then their ability will trigger at the end of the turn and you'll get them back in your hand. But I don't think you can then drop the Cockroaches, sac them a second time and have them bounce back to your hand right away, since the "end of turn" has already happened.

    However, even if I'm right about that, you can easily* circumvent the whole mess by using Endless Cockroaches instead: p0rt4L 4 t3h w1n!!!!!!111

    *Easily IF you can find four copies of Endless Cockroaches
  11. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    Oversoul gets -2 points for the use of "teh 1337 5934|<". Oversoul...

    ...you officially fail. Please turn in your badge and firearm.

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  12. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    The joke's on you. I don't have a badge or a firearm! u l00z n00b!
  13. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    DAMMIT! I knew I was forgetting something.

    You still lose 2 points, though.

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  14. DarthFerret Evil Sith Weasel

    Ashnods Altar, Sliver Queen, and the artifact that reduces the cost of activation by one...(once again cannot remember the name) = Infinite Slivers!
  15. Lythand Veteran CPA Member


    And instead of Brood of cockroaches, just use the Alter of dimentia+ Life Line+ Ball Lightning. Works just as good.
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Darthferret: Okay, this is not the infinite combos thread. And you lose two points because you forgot Heartstone's name. :p

    Lythand: The idea is to mill the opponent to death, not to attack every turn with a Ball Lightning and also mill away a few dozen cards so that your opponent has a big graveyard when he loses from damage.
  17. Lythand Veteran CPA Member

    You are correct. At the end of turn the Ball lighting would go to the grave yard. Because of the Life line, it would come back. And because of wording on Ball lightingning it goes to the grave yard. WOTC ruled that what you would have is a never ending cycle of Ball lightining coming back and then dying due to two card characteristics working against each other. At which point it was ruled the owner of the ball lighting would have to break the cycle and deam he would not get the ball lighting back and it would just stay in the graveyard ..at some point in the cycle. So when the ball lightning comes back, sacrifice it to the alter of dimentia instead to mill for 6. It returns beacuse of the lifeline. Repeat and wash.
  18. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I think (it's all quite fuzzy for some reason, perhaps I was traumatically beaten down by this engine...) there might have been something where a combo like that one did work: in Fifth Edition rules. It definitely doesn't work now. I think you may have said you were on a hiatus from Magic for a while, which would explain your posting this combo. Was that you who was on a long hiatus?
  19. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Back to the first combo:

    I agree with you Oversoul: "at end of turn" only happens once per turn. If it said "until end of turn", then the combo could work (barring the life loss thing).
  20. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    If we use Dwarven Pony instead of Brood of Cockroaches, it would work.


    Ransac, cpa trash man

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