How should we protect our card from the 1337 kiddies?

Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by Thallid Ice Cream Man, Mar 3, 2003.

  1. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    I'm trying to decide how best to vote on the card we will (supposedly) get to make at, but I realize now that even this third vote could determine whether or not we make something interesting. Actually, I should say, this vote may determine how long it will be before those newbs who focus too much on flash and not on quality take control of the card's path.

    Forgotten Ancient is an interesting card, but let's face the fact that its function is fairly pedestrian. A green (splashable no less) creature that makes things bigger. Woo. Just what I've always wanted. Like I said, looking at the card gives a little more hope, but then a look had better do that because we're talking about a rare designed by the entire Magic community (SUPPOSEDLY). It will probably either become the latest flavor of the month green creature, then fade into obscurity, or go the way of the Spiritmonger. Either way, it's bad...

    Fortunately they'll have to think long and hard about how to make a noncreature artifact as viscerally exciting as a crappy big creature (or a pumper with 1337 sk1llz!). Still we should use this thread to decide how to vote on the card so as to make it something fresh, in use as well as mechanics. We can discuss the possible outcomes for the bigger choices and decide which choice would be the best to create an interesting card. The idea is to discuss the choices a little bit so we can make an informed decision as to what will make the most interesting card.

    I think that now is the best time for use to start this for three reasons. Earlier we would have had to deal with people arguing about color choices and card type, distinctions which I feel are matters of preference.

    We should start it now if we're ever going to do it, because when it comes down to voting for actual mechanics we can decide on our own. Hopefully if we have reached that point we will have a wealth of tantalizing options. And they could pull a doublestrike and use the ideas later if they're good enough.

    Finally, this idea hadn't occurred to me until 5 minutes ago ;).

    So, for vote 3. Flavor vs. Function as the first layer of the card. What do you think? I'm leaning towards flavor because the flavor on the last card was really weird. Maybe if we get people to think about how they'll describe their pet artifact, the Flaming Orb of God or whatever, they'll actually get creative instead of making a card that'll end a few limited games and proceed to look cool in permanent slots in trade binders.
    We need a good discussion in here though.
  2. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I'd say go with function... as in I want to be able to use it... I want it to say to me... " use me or I'll beat you from another person's deck..."

    If the function isn't worthy of use... should it be a Magic card... isn't that what R & D wants... every card to be used....:)
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I think function also.
  4. train The Wildcard!!!...

    After reading the article on WOTC's page... I still think the function as a design feature should be the way to go...

    Especially if cursed scroll(function) vs. mirari(flavor) is the example set...
  5. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    Cursed Scroll is broken, they shouldn't have chosen it.

    Keep in mind we're choosing one AND then the other anyway.... Probably some of you understood that, I just want to make sure. Last time we made the function and then the flavor. But that was basically meaningless because the card was sort of disconnected from the set anyway.

    On further reflection it seems to me that the best argument for flavor is that the flavor would stand a chance at meaning something if we pick it first. Then again, once we do, they might pick the abilities that make the card seem most like what the flavor says. That might be interesting but it also might give us a boring set of choices.

    So I'm still not sure.

    By the way I'm not saying "Wrong answer." I'm just going to record thoughts here (without making too many posts).
  6. train The Wildcard!!!...

    But we don't know if the card from last time was disconnected from the set...

    And why would WOTC, after all they've gone through... allow a card to be created, and disconnected from the set...

    And cursed scroll isn't broken... you just have to be able to play against it...

    If we choose flavor later anyway - I don't see how this makes much difference... it will fit into the set somehow...

    I just picture function as a way of looking into the playability...
  7. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    I agree that we should protect the card from the skript kiddiez or else we'll end up with some sort of Yugioh-themed piece of a sixth piece of Exodia or something...

    Function first, all the way. Anybody keen on sharing their ideas for card ability/mechanic yet?
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Yep, Richard Garfield had a totally different vision for it... it may have worked better in earlier times, when Sligh wasn't "known" yet... :)
  9. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Train has it right there. After all, that's what WotC's stance is on everything, anyway. "Can't deal with it, play a more dynamic deck" they seem to say. Can't deal with Cursed Scroll, then play some anti-artifact cards, damage prevention, or fatter critters. And stop belly-aching.

    Personally, though, I hate the card, being a weenie rush/beatdown player myself. And I find WotC's attitude insulting to casual players, since their stance seems to say we should all metagame and play like pros or something.
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I'm a bit disconnected to say whether WOTC is giving off that vibe, but it seems that in the last couple of blocks, more cards have been geared towards "casual" players. More Tribal cards, more "each opponent" cards.
  11. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I think WOTC is in their rectify their position with all players mode...

    They are making more casual cards, after an extremely strong block, and making more cards usable in extended and "older" formats...

    Then the next block wil be more tourney stuff... and the cycle begins again...
  12. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    I think I'll vote function then. If we make flavor an afterthought one benefit is that the flavor might be something interesting to match an artifact that doesn't do everything.
  13. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Function has got to be the winner to keep the skipt kiddiez a bit at bay for the time being. At least artifact creature lost out.

    Looking at the situation, things look as tournament-geared as ever, and casual favoritism is just the smoke and mirrors. Maybe I should do a conspiracy theory article on it...
  14. train The Wildcard!!!...

    See Thallid, you've made an excellent point as to why function would benefit in coming first...;) :cool:
  15. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    I'm just trying to protect my baby from the script kiddies... :) ;) :cool:

    What should we call the card if one of our designs wins? I think I'll name it "Jailhouse Bertha."
  16. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Whatever its named, I hope like hell we don't get another stupid nickname like "babycakes."

    In the meantime, though, maybe we could put our efforts to best use by collaborating on what abilities to submit. If we all come up with top abilities (sharing them here and helping each other improve) maybe we can each take one of the top abilities we come up with and submitting, that way the CPA has some good odds of controlling the outcome.

    Imagine...the CPA dominating the card. Its a nice little dream. :D
  17. bryson430 Revised-era type..

    Slightly OT:

    I know I'm probably being terribly dim, but what does the 1337 mean?
  18. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Its a derrogatory net-term for stupid losers in online games and online in general.

    Elite=LEET=1337; Comes from stupid little punks in online games who like to talk in all caps and in the lame-oink 1337-5p33k (LEET SPEEK).
  19. Azreal the Soulmaster Sorrow's Rhapsody

    I'd like to see another artifact that effected the entire board, you know kinda like winter orb. I definetly don't want to see an artifact thats like: tap: give target creature +X+X blah blah blah.
  20. bryson430 Revised-era type..

    Thanks re: 1337...

    Absolutely - something that changes the way the game plays would be great...kind of like Storm Cauldron (a favorite of mine) or Winter Orb as you say.

    How about sdomething like: 5T: Both players discard their hands and draw 7 new cards? Like the Wheel 0f Fish (probably a UK-only gag...I mean Wheel Of Fortune) ....only more so.

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