Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by rakso, Aug 13, 2000.
Har de freakin har har har. sorry, but I think you're suffering under some small delusions there.
Incidental meaning the deck runs rather smoothly without them, and they aren't that big a loss. Why else do you think real Type I players will recommend buying Moxen and Black Lotus last if you're completing a collection?
And how do you do that quote thing?
[ quote ] ...text... [ /quote ]
Just take out the spaces after the brackets.
Thanks a lot!
Back on topic: Type 1 does typically require very expensive/rare cards. And I specialize in cheap decks. And underused rares. this means, against a tournament-calibre T1 deck, I don't get a fourth turn...
I have a tournament viable T1 deck. I know, because all the tourneys I play in are T1. And I see a lot of Moxes, Loti, power stuff. I see High Tide decks, red/green beatdown, etc. And THE most expensive card I have in my T1 deck is one single solitary Mana Drain. The next most expensive...probably the Morphlings.
You do NOT need to be a millionaire to win at T1. You just need to be inventive. I'm proof.
As I said, grab a mono red deck or mono black Necropotence deck against one of those tournament-calibre Type I decks, and see how many rares and Betas you need.
A friend of mine has a casual burn deck that goes 50/50 against my deck chock full of restricted Type I cards, Moat, Abyss, Mana Drain and everything else in between.
That's what I've been saying: I DO grab mono-black or mono-red. My mono-black suicide deck is illegal, though, even in t1 (lotus petals), and my mono-red deck, with 4 lightning bolts, 4 shocks, 4 flame rifts (you get the picture) never wins.
If I had 4 necrpotences I could win. Or 4 ball lightnings. See?
The bottom line is, in almost any format, I can build a good deck with two rares. Not in T1.
Ball Lightnings are hardly the best red cards in Type I. Neither are Cursed Scrolls, by the way.
A red deck can stick in some burn (you must have the incorrect idea that an efficient mono red Type I has nothing but every burn spell printed since Beta), cheap but lethal creatures like Jackal Pup and Goblin Cadet, and lethal hosers like Dwarven Miner and Gorilla Shaman. None of these are particularly expensive, but they kill. Then, there's the Elemental Blasts in the board.
As for the black deck, take it as a given for the moment that you NEED 4 Necropotence to make a Necropotence deck, not that they are particularly expensive. The rest from Hypnotic Specter to Hymn and Duress to Contagion are not rare, and Necropotence can kill quite a lot of Type I decks.
Like I said, I can get killed by decks with very few rares playing heavy Type I, and an Elvish Lyrist in an all-common mono green kills a lot of expensive enchantments just like any expensive card would, for example.
Name a better T1 red creature for 3 mana..Hell name a better T1 cards for 3 red mana..
No offense Rakso..I am just an old school T1 red player..Those are my roots to the game..My first win deck was a sliegh deck with Balls...umm..errr..Ball Lightnings
Though I hate to interrupt such a fascinating debate on the merits of which type to play by answering the initial post's question, I will do so anyhow.
I build my decks in type I (minus the expensive cards, of course), and make it a point to let a potential opponent know that the decks I have are not type II, and if they contain Unglued cards, I mention that, too. Its unbelievable how many people refuse to play based on my decks not being type II.
You'd be amazed at how many people equate the phrase "type I" with "ultra-powerful deck built to crush you with cards you can never hope to own". Its as if they forget about the 14 intervening card sets* between Masques block and Legends (and before). Those of you who have read my deck posts can attest to my decks not being of that ilk -- full of "suboptimal" cards (to use another term meaning "not meant for dueling, and therefore a waste of cardboard") that aren't necessarily powerful, just out of print.
When I point out that its the skill of the player, not the cards in the deck that win the game, I get some disbelief. Then I use the questionable logic that if his deck is sooooooo good, it should be able to beat my paltry type I deck, I can get an opponent.
Another thing I have noticed is how a large number of people (with control issues, I suspect) refuse to play anything so unstructured as a chaos game, especially one of 5-8 people. Being forced to think outside the box and/or to last beyond the fourth turn is unbearable to these players. And should they reluctantly agree to join in, they invariably pick one person, and try to duel with him.
The other players either watch, join in, or interfere, as their natures dictate. Personally, I try to do the polite thing and damage everyone equally (except for the occasional vengeance game, or knowledge of a certain deck's victory conditions) -- just to be fair.
Methinks that constitutes near-rambling... so I guess I should just ramble on, as it were...
*14 sets being Dark, Fallen Empires, Ice Age, Alliances, Homelands, Mirage, Visions, Weatherlight, Tempest, Stronghold, Exodus, Urza's Saga, Legacy, and Destiny.
I play Ball Lightnings, also, and my deck is posted at http://www.bdominia.com/discus/articles/T1FAQlist.html.
However, while it does the most damage for 3 mana, the 3 mana and RRR might be the thing that keeps it from being played in cutthroat T1.
It is probably the second most lethal 3-cc red spell, I agree. (The first is Wheel of Fortune).
I will have to agree with you in the fact its the skill of the player. I just recently pl,ayed my friend Will in a game where he was using an old scholl T1 counter deck. And I was using an MBC Rising Waters deck. Although He still won, he had quite a HARD time beating me.
On the other hand, it can also be that Type I and Type II doesn't always matter if a deck is rather structured to beat you. Brian Weissman, for example, reported getting creamed with his Type I deck by Type II weenie decks because his deck was tuned to handle Type I combo decks as well. Not to mention that Type II weenies can be nastier than Type I weenies.
Of course, players can suck bad, too. I once played a strange beginner who spent the equivalent of several hundred dollars in one day to construct an Academy deck that lacked counters of all cards. I was playing a Necropotence deck without any power cards or even rares (except Necro and maybe Zuran Orb and a Tower).
He cursed, "Discard deck" on my first Hymn to Tourach, and got his hand emptied. My Hypnotic Specter was eventually staring at the Moxen and dual lands on his end of the table.
He topdecked a card, said go, and then I attacked. Funny, but he discarded a Wheel of Fortune.
Repeat. Discard Windfall.
Repeat. Discard Braingeyser.
You get the picture.
Rakso -- I encountered a similar soul once, though I didn't play him, I just watched him buy the cards from my friend.
It amounted to a (wealthy) divorced parent trying to keep his kid happy by buying an obscene amount of type I power cards, at the height of the selling market. Even after my friend (the seller) and I discussed the deck the kid was going to build with his great cards, and pointed out that the strategy of using Karplusan Yetis to sac Blazing Effigies (although cool) was not worth buying the time cards, dual lands, moxen, and Mana Drains. His dad of course agreed, but in the end, my friend was many $100s richer, while the kid went and lost (loudly and unbelievingly!) in a type I tourney.
There might have been a point to that story, but I don't know what it is.
Even the best cards in the world cant win a game for the worst magic player.
Too true. But the contrary is also true.
The best magic player in the world can't win a game with the worst cards in the world.
Well..he might not win..but I bet the best magic player could give you a run for your money..Even with ****ty cards..
Ooops!!..I dont think I can say ****ty...
Ahh! My virgin ears!
'Can't win A game'? Maybe can't win a tourney, but a game? I'm sure the BEST Magic player a can win a game... apparently Maro's done it with Sorrow's Path, says so right in the interview.
Separate names with a comma.