How do you feel about the banning of aluren?

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Mikeymike

Guest
Originally posted by EricBess
Well, having judges the Pro Tour in question, how is Brain Freeze a "simpler" combo than Wirewood Savage? It seems to me that both combos require Aluren and Cavern Harpy and 1 other card. The "more complex" combo that you are talking about was a lot of supporting cards that made it easier to get key pieces, or that made it so you could work the combo without specific pieces.
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But this deck doesn't need the Wirewood Savage to go off. Surely it helps, but the Savage essentially adds a different 3 card combo. Aluren/Harpy/Freeze will kill...Aluren/Harpy/Savage will kill because it gets you the Freeze.
 
S

Skyrider

Guest
that's basically it. Savage is just a means to an end, speeding up the combo.
 
E

EricBess

Guest
My point is that it was still a 3-card combo, just like yours. I suppose you add an additional win condition, which improves your chances, but 2 of the 3 pieces have to be present regardless.

Don't get me wrong, I think the deck is a good deck. I just don't think it is significantly better now than it was then, so I don't see why any bannings would be necessary now when they weren't before.

Oh, and keep in mind, Brain Freeze doesn't stand alone. If someone disrupts your combo, Brain Freeze becomes a dead card. Some might say that this actually weakens the deck in the interest of trying to make it faster.

A good combo deck will have an alternate win condition that nearly all cards can contribute to if necessary.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
If I ever built it, I'd just make it more, well, "synergetic" I'd play with a bunch of the old slivers, which could just come out quickly to aluren, (And the red comon one gives them haste). It would just be a quick stompy deck that, if it got a hold of savage and harpy, could just proceed to put all of its hasting slivers into play. This way, if the combo is disrupted, I'm still giving them the trouble of a bunch of slivers. Maybe one brain freeze in there as an alternative.
 
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BigBlue

Guest
But in a mirror game...

Gaea's blessings will save you and since anyone can use aluren you could drop them yourself. since both are instants.... you could even use their casting, only needing brain freeze... next you need something to make them draw a card - gee isn't that what Blue is all about?

This really is a casual thing...

My least favorite deck right now is donate, one player in our group consistently plays it and I am generally the target and somehow I never have a timely disruption...
 
T

Thallid Ice Cream Man

Guest
It's not like they could issue errata... what's there to fix? You'd have to make it a radically different card and there are formats where that change is not worth it.
Keep in mind Aluren was my favorite green card for a few years... :) although I don't like it so much as to proclaim a deck entirely dependent on it tournament viable.

Well to get around the issue of E. Plague, I'd advocate Horned Kavu, also a two mana gater, but 3/4. However, it is a kavu and not a beast, and there's no Savage equivalent for kavu. With just storm maybe it's OK, but only as a marginal Harpy replacement.

Still...
Let's say you ran 4 Harpy, 3 Kavu, 3 or 4 Brain Freeze (depending on whether you want to draw it or not), and 4 Savage, and of course Aluren.
It would depend on how else you want to fill in the deck.
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
Oh, because of storm...

Hah! Aluren + Horned Kavu + Quirion Dryad + Rancor = Inf./Inf. creature w/ trample :D
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
then you Fling it... forget the rancor... And hope your opponent isn't running his own brain freeze...
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
Posted by TICM
Well to get around the issue of E. Plague, I'd advocate Horned Kavu, also a two mana gater, but 3/4. However, it is a kavu and not a beast, and there's no Savage equivalent for kavu. With just storm maybe it's OK, but only as a marginal Harpy replacement.
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Aluren + Horned Kavu (or Fleetfoot Panther) + Furious Assault...

See, Aluren is broken :D
 
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mythosx

Guest
I don't understand all this hub bub...i wasn't there like a ton of combos with aluren and the man o war before? Isn't it the same?
 
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BigBlue

Guest
another Enchantment.... Pandemonium...

But, these are all old news. Fun for a go in your casual game once, but boring to play.

More Pandemonium madness... Sneak Attack plus Sparkaster... 24 damage for RRRR.
 
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Skyrider

Guest
if I remember there were at least two enchantments that you could go infinite with aluren and insta win. I don't remember the combo but I think Pandemonium was one of the ones I was thinking of.
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
then you Fling it... forget the rancor...
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Howabout creating a giant deck full of artifact creatures, play Lifeline, then fling the atog at 'em :D
 
T

train

Guest
Lifeline only comes back "At end of turn"...

But something like enduring renewal would work....
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
Sacrifice x Artifact Creatures. Giant chucks the Atog. At end of turn, all Artifact Creatures come back... as well as Mr. Tog :D
 
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train

Guest
But you don't want them back at end of turn - you want them back now...
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
Fling: Instant
+
Bloodshot Cyclops: Tap effect
+
Atog: Non-tapping activation
=
1st turn tog out: Atog 2/2 X Artifact creatures = Near Death Experiend (If played right)
1st opponents tog out: Atog 2/2 X Artifact creatures = major bye-bye
 
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