Here we go again...

M

Mr_Pestilence

Guest
If the rumors are true, the first card reavealed from Saviors of Kamigawa is...wait for it...a counterspell!!!

What is this obsession WotC has w/ counterspells? Are there not enough (or in my opinion, too many) counterspells now? Doesn't anyone at WotC realize counterspells ARE NOT FUN?

There are already at least 5 counterspells in Kamigawa block alone (Hisoka's Defiance, Disrupting Shoal, Quash, Hinder, and this new card) and I'm frankly sick of it.

True, these cards are most likely to show up in tournament decks, not in casual play, but there's no hard and fast rule banning counterspells from casual play, and being a control freak is some twisted souls' idea of fun.

I would like to see a counterspell-free format - any takers?
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
What kind of counterspell? Almost all of the new counterspells have sucked horribly. Not that the game needs another good one...
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
To be honest, 5 counterspells in a block of what, 300-400 cards so far is not that impressive. Countering is simply part of what blue does, I'm afraid.
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Yeah, I think I trust Arcane Denial more than this thing. It's nice competition for Rethink or something weak like that...
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
A counterspell isn't too bad. As long as it isn't something as crazy as affinity or something the community will be happy.

On another note:

"Saviors will also include five other legendary Spirits, one for each color - the spirits of glorious heroes who were so powerful in life that they became kami, with considerable influence in both the material and the spirit world."
 
D

DarthFerret

Guest
I think what you need to keep in mind is that there are Block formats and Type II formats that do not have access to the counterspells of yore. That is one of the reasons that WoTC has to keep reprinting different types of counterspells. Otherwise they would all eventually phase out of those formats.
 
Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
Point of view "A": As a casual player I will never use anything to replace the magic card called Counterspell in my decks, so it doesn't matter if Wiz Co creates another one because I won't use it in 'casual play'.

Point of view "B": As a tournament player I am glad to see Wiz Co still making counter magic cards even though they are weaker versions of the past cards. I suppose that's a "good-thing". :rolleyes:


Spidey: ooooooooo, watch yer mouth, boy! :p
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Hey, I like counters as well as the next blue player! I'm just saying that some other people might view not having counters in a block or Standard as a good thing (train? Mr. P?)

:)
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Killer Joe said:
Point of view "A": As a casual player I will never use anything to replace the magic card called Counterspell in my decks, so it doesn't matter if Wiz Co creates another one because I won't use it in 'casual play'.
Click to expand...
I would use Mana Drains to replace Counterspells in my decks, if I had Mana Drains... :rolleyes:
 
Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
I would add those mana drains and get rid of a different counter magic card.
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Drain
etc...
 
D

DarthFerret

Guest
agreed, although people seem to be underestimating the usefulness of Power Sink. I love that card, it can tap all of your opponents mana, thus leaving him somwhat defensless on your turn. (Especially if he is also playing control/counter magic.) :p
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Well, the first countermagic slots after Mana Drain would almost always go to Force of Will. Then it becomes an issue of whether the UU mana cost is affordable enough to use Counterspell over something like Mana Leak.

I'm not in the same boat as Train. I use blue more than probably any other color. I have no compunction against using Counterspells. But Mana Drain is just about the scariest card in the game...
 
M

Mr_Pestilence

Guest
It's true - I HATE counterspells.

Aside from that personal prejudice, I think its wrong from a design standpoint to have a spell countered or otherwise negated for less effort than required by casting the original spell.

For instance, if I cast a Bird of Paradise, countering that spell should require, lets say, paying 2 life or sacrificing a permanent. If I cast Tooth and Nail w/entwine, countering it should cost 6 life or sac'ing 3 permanents in addition to the mana cost.

Would this make counterspells less efficient and less attractive? Yes, thats the idea.

Comments?
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
*calls the wahmbulance for Mr. Pestilence*

Almost every CCG has a way of saying "no". And remember, there's a balance to be struck. If countermagic becomes too bad (and it's fairly poor now), combos rule the day. If combos peter out, aggro decks just smash face. And if aggro decks are too slow, control decks win.

It's part of the game, man. It's like saying you have something personal against Mountains. Play around it.
 
Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
Paying "Life" for counter magic cards sounds like a Black card thing and sacrificing permanants sounds like a red card thing.

Now, having your opponent 'draw a card' as payment for a counter magic card, that's sounds right. I hate it, but right. :rolleyes:

Rock = Aggro
Paper = Combo
Scissors = Control

Yeah,....balance. :)
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Killer Joe said:
Rock = Aggro
Paper = Combo
Scissors = Control

Yeah,....balance. :)
Click to expand...
It depends on the format. In Vintage, the only aggressive decks that I can think of that have had much success recently are 5/3 and Food Chain Goblins (which is sort of aggro-combo).

And then there are aggro-control decks in some formats. And there are prison-based decks that have done well too.

I think though, for the game to be enjoyable, there has to be some sort of balance. And counterspells are often a part of that balance.
 
D

DarthFerret

Guest
Counterspells have been in the game since its inception. They are a base mechanic of Magic. I see no reason to get rid of anything like that. Maybe it was a little unbalanced at one time (I remember the: I counter, your counterspell that is targeting my counterspell) but it appears that WizCo has taken steps to solve that problem, and have been successful. If anything, they have gone too far.

Saying Counterspells are unbalanced, is like saying that Terror was unbalanced. I could have a 15/17 Camel on the board, and 2 mana kill it. (That happened to me once!) Is that unbalanced? Is it unbalanced for one mana to deal 3 damage? Is it really that bad that for one mana my defending creature can gain +7/+7? How about doubling its power, and making it trample...again for one mana? Look at the speed and power of some of the better older cards, and how they are not as "playable" with the way the game has evolved. Then, ask yourself if there really is a lack of balance between the colors?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top