has anyone watched the news lately?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by war?, May 5, 2004.

  1. kirby_1111 New Member

    I hate to say it, but we've seen this kind of stuff before, in Vietnam. Although I'm not so obtuse as to say that Iraq and Vietnam are the same,some similarities can be seen. This can be seen in the warfare and battle tactics that are ebing used against our troops. And, of course, war brings out the worst in all of us. The guards got frustrated and acted criminally as a result.
  2. chocobo_cid Thyme Devourer

    That hardly justifies their actions.
  3. kirby_1111 New Member

    Whose justifing? I said they acted criminally. I'm just saying we've seen similar psycological reactions in previous wars so it sholdn't come as a surprise. That doesn't make it right, or humane, but there it is.
  4. Reverend Love New Member

    Watching from afar the people celebrating your fallen comrades deaths certainly has a jading effect on one's humanity and compassion.

    It's funny how it's always accepted that the insurgents relish the death of Coalition soldiers...but are you so naive to think that the opposite doesn't hold true?

    Both of these groups are running on high-octane hate. Acts of brutality and spite are only the visual flags indicating this fact. I’d honestly be surprised if the criminal acts of Abu-Ghraib prison are the worst things being committed by the Coalition’s soldiers….but like they say…

  5. kirby_1111 New Member

    That's exactly what I mean. Well put.
  6. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Hello again all. Sorry to have vanished for a while, but you know how it goes: Defending freedom (someone's freedom, at least).

    It's kind of weird, but I do know a lot about what really went down at the prison (most of which I'm not allowed to even discuss for security reasons) because a lot of people I work with were actually there.

    What it all comes down to is that a few of our MP's got a little silly (ie, stupid) and had some fun at the prisoners' expense. At first everyone got a big laugh out of it, but when the all-seeing Media got their grimey paws on it they decided to try to use it as a means to help further John Kerry's political carear and to, more importantly, get more people watching their "fair and balanced" coverage of the news.

    The one thing that keeps bothering me is that many people think that the mis-treatment of the prisoners and the recent beheadings are related. They're not. The Al-Qaida and/or insurgents would have beend trying these tactics with or without the problems at the prison. The whole "mistreatment" issue just gives our more whiney elements a bandwaggon to follow to try and abandon Iraq back to the extremists.

    -Ferret

    "...at least the prisoners at Abu Grahib can still wear neckties..."
  7. Mr_Pestilence Wumpus

    How is this the media's fault? The media has a duty to report the news, even when the news is unflattering. If the media only report news that is favorable to the administration in charge, its called propaganda.

    I was in the military, and I can tell you that either the guards were following orders, or what they were doing was implicitly approved of by their superiors - that's how the military works. Low level military personnel do not simply decide on their own to do something like this, without dire consequences. If the commanders of these personnel knew what was happening, they are criminals. If they didn't, they're incompetent.

    The reason the US and other signatories of the Geneva Convention were supposed to respect the GC was to be able to demand that our personnel not be mistreated if they were captured. So much for that.

    How can you say the Abu Gharab abuses were not connected to the beheadings when the perpetrators of those murders said they were?

    I'm not a Kerry fan, but you have to acknowledge that the Bush administration has been the most incompetent in recent history. To wit:

    - We have lost respect among our allies around the world, and turned the sympathy garnered after the 9/11 attacks into outright hatred.
    - The US has suffered enormous long-term economic damage, due to the ridiculous tax shifts made, while at the same time trying to increase federal spending. I say "tax shift", and not "tax cut", because make no mistake, those taxes will be paid eventually. This amounts to a de facto tax increase on future generations. This is like going to dinner today, and when the bill comes, telling the waiter to give it to somebody else who comes to eat 20 years from now.
    - Due to the ongoing misuse and overuse of our military, many veterans are electing to leave the service. A sense of patriotism can only sustain you for so long. When you feel you are being taken advantage of, you start looking for a way out. The military has resorted to accounting tricks to maintain force levels for now, but these will run out eventually. The majority of the readers of this site will be the ones to suffer from this. If Bush is somehow re-elected, there will be a draft. That's right - no college, no career, no exploring other interests (at least for a few years) - compulsory national service, probably for 2-3 years, similar to what Israel has.
    - Environmental "regulations" written by the very companies that are wrecking it. Oh well, who needs clean air and water? Only enviro-whackos, I guess. Seen a tree? The rest are all the same - cut-em down!
    - Who needs clean, cheap, long-term energy like solar, wind power, and geothermal heat? We gotta dig up the last barrels of oil in Alaska, even if means sacrificing the last pristine areas we have.
    - Who needs a job that pays a living wage, along with "luxuries" like sick leave, vacation, health insurance and a retirement? For the sake of competition, you can work part-time for $7 an hour and handle your own benefits, right?

    For these reasons and more, Bush gotta go!
  8. Reverend Love New Member

    Your absolutely 100% right. I couldn't agree more with that exact sentiment. The media outlets responsibility to the public is to provide facts..no more no less. Except the media isn't impartial nor unbiased. Large papers and cable news are riddled with left-leaning biased editors and reporters. Any possible scandal or snafu of the administration is caught onto with reverent joy. The news organizations are constantly in a state of spinning the facts to suit their agendas. And this whole process they keep in a perpetual state to publicly slander the president.

    They'll cry out over, over, and over about VP Cheney telling someone to f-themselves. But completely glide over the U.N.'s Oil for Food scandal which indicates the left's beloved U.N. officials were taking bribes from Saddam..noooo can't report that.

    So don't sit upon your righteous throne and come to the aid of a those so undeserving. Is propaganda spewed forth daily? Yes, from both the president and his opponents. But don't believe us so naive as to not recognize this.


    This time I agree with you without any rebuttals. An Army investigation into the matter revealed incompetent leadership and the reservists/guard infamous lack of training.

    I think what the rodent was trying to imply was that Abu-Gharab was an excuse for beheadings, not a reason. The perpetrators of this crime regardless of current incidents were/are going to kill American's and their allies in gruesome fashion. The guard’s misconducts at Abu-Gharab made an excellent rallying cry.


    If anything that hatred was already seething beneath the surface. Europe and America and are no longer bosom buddies, nor will we be. We're evolving into economic and global competitors. So why is it shocking that they don't approve of us stepping on their toes...or heating oil..which ever term you prefer.


    HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Just like the tax shifting Ronald Reagan did back in the 80s? Where he selfishly burdened Bush Sr. and Clinton with paying off America's incurred debts, and dooming their presidencies with no hope of economic vitality?...ooh wait..nevermind ..that was 12 years of unprecedented growth....

    Go Tax Shifting!!

    I'd love to see those retention numbers....really I would. Because the last statistic I've been privy to indicated the Army reached 98% of it's retention goals, AND exceeded it's recruiting goals. That doesn't really sound like an exodus to me.

    The possibilities of a draft occurring are precisely between slim and none. Reason being is a troop realignment with South Korea, Germany, Balkans, and Kosovo would free up 50,000+ troops. The Army could also wonder of all wonders increase it's manning budget.

    Occasionally a senator bemoans military manning and raises the issue of a draft. It makes a nice sound bite...but that's about all.

    I agree! If the lumber companies would only do as the forestry service in California wants, (selective harvesting) then we wouldn't victimize our older pines, furs and oaks to unstoppable forest fires. However due to overzealous regulation we can't, and continue to have infernos burning up our national treasures.

    Truth is I agree with your ideas, just not your practice. The splendors of Mother Nature must be preserved, rationally.

    Again I agree with your ideas just not the practice.

    I don't even know how to answer this...it's just so blind and angry. Should we adopt communism so everyone regardless of talents or intelligence get's his fair share? Or try out socialisms faulty public health care and crushing overhead? Why should McDonalds pay higher then minimum wage? Its employees are unskilled and uneducated. There's just so many counterpoints to that statement it's ridiculous.

    Listen I don't agree with many of the decisions made by Bush and his cabinet. In fact...I didn't even vote for the man! I voted Gore!!! But to put it bluntly America is in a time of turbulence. The barbarians are at the gate brother. Bush while not the most elegant of men is a man of character of morality. You might not like what he has to say, but he has his convictions and he stands by them. America needs a strong leader, and that's Bush.

    Kerry on the other hand is a weak kneed waffling pussy, and would sell his own mother up the river to get elected. To be honest I'd rather have Dean for president then this clown...at least Dean believed in what he said.
  9. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    In response to your last statement rev. There is nothing wrong with communism or socialism. NOW before anyone one of you starts saying wtf and click on that reply button. Hear me out. What Marx is saying is that it is an eventuallity that will occur, not that it must be fought for. I believe it will happen just not in your lifetimes. Secondly, Capitalism sux. Hard. In America we have all been trained from birth and influenced by hundreds of years of lies saying that capitalism is the best way of life. This is a load. In fact all our current problems stem from capitalism. I am going to beg the question for now because I don't have time to write you all a 5000 word essay on this topic. However, If you look at the trend of technology and the infrastracture of our lives you will see we are moving towards a more socialistic and communistic society. With the advent of direct deposit, direct pay, and a cashless system, it is pretty much moving towards a perfected communist system where if you work you have credit. The problem is that the super rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. It would only be a matter of time before the system evolves to the point where the poor say thats enough and they take the system from the rich or the rich become so rich that they basically establish a system of communism under thier control. I know the way I am describing this is very vague. Again I apologise. But communism would be much better than capitalism. In a capitalistic society, it is not the smart or the diligent that get rich. It is the rich that get rich. Plain and simple.
  10. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    So many comments going on in this thread... it's a shame that I won't be around that much to make comments on them.

    Let's just say that I know a lot more about what went on in the prison from people that were actually there than Al-Jazeera English (better known as CNN) has been revealing....but, again, because it is part of an ongoing investigation (and quite a few courts martial) I'm not allowed to say.

    But, I can be hypothetical:

    Let's just assume that the people that decided to turn the prisoners into Iraq's newest cheerleading sensations were under orders. It's safe to assume that they wouldn't be that high up the food chain. At worst, it might affect a couple officers at a company, or at worst batallion level. It's not worth going all the way up the food chain to demand resignations from the Sec. of Defense. That's like saying that because a guy working for Microsoft got caught downloading music (which seems to be a crime worse than humiliating P.O.W.'s these days) that the VP of his department should be fired. It just seems so silly.
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    on the topic of Media bias, I think that everyone here would be pretty naive if we thought that news reported by networks owned by multinational corporations wouldn't be w/o bias. Bad news needs to be reported to so that people will tune in and they can make huge advertising revenues. If everyone starts to become complacent w/ the current administration which leads to a general lack of bad news. So, if you can get everyone's opinions against whoever's in power you can shake up the system, generate more bad news, and keep people from changing the channels to those Seinfeld re-runs they've been meaning to get back to...

    -Ferret

    "...just my 2¢ until I can get a reliable internet connection to babble consitently :)"
  11. Mr_Pestilence Wumpus

    Just a short response -

    I am certainly not "coming to the defense" of the media - they are corporate owned and controlled, lazy, and willingly blind. I encourage every one to read a large variety of sources to try to get a better idea of what's really happening in the world.

    No one has the whole truth.

    As for Ronald Reagan, I guess 4 trillion in increased deficits, a 500 billion S&L scandal, and years of record personal bankruptcies aren't enough to convince some people that this era was an economic disaster.
  12. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    Reagan's america was a weird place...I dunno if it was good or bad as a whole...And I think it is too early to say.
  13. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Reaganomics.

    Nuff said.
  14. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Depends what the actual numbers of the retention and recruiting goals are/were. Were they lower from previous years? Does the retention goal numbers include those people who can't leave due to the stop-gap measure or command given a couple of months ago?
  15. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    From what I've seen from a few friends here in the Army, we've got a good mix of people that like what they're doing and want to stay in for as long as possible (serious bonuses for those that "re-up") and those that are just plain sick of things because when they joined they were never expecting to actually be in combat - go figure.

    As for Reagan, I liked him. He was the right president for the time. This was the time of the Cold War. Nuclear Anhilation was hanging over our heads like the Sword of Damacles every day and we needed someone that could deal w/ the situation. In today's political environment he would not be the best man for the job, but I think he did a good enough job considering what he had to deal with...

    -Ferret
  16. train The Wildcard!!!...

    a media without bias...

    Webster's dictionary...

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