W
war?
Guest
has anyone seen those disturbing photos from iraq about the american soldiers? does anyone know what happened there. ARe those the american soldiers in the pics of the iraqi soldiers?
R
Reverend Love
Guest
The Americans in the pictures arn't soldiers they're convicts...whose job it will be making big rocks into little rocks.
When the President of the United States has to answer for your actions you can bet your oink your going up the river.
When the President of the United States has to answer for your actions you can bet your oink your going up the river.
N
Notepad
Guest
Yes, the river of passionate NeoCon love. 
He'll invite them over to the White House so he, Condi Rice, and Little Dick Cheyney can all have a big daisy chain together. (yes, Rice is a guy in drag)
He'll invite them over to the White House so he, Condi Rice, and Little Dick Cheyney can all have a big daisy chain together. (yes, Rice is a guy in drag)
D
DeathMaster666
Guest
Pretty disgusting stuff. Looks like Rumsfeld's head is gonna roll.
M
mythosx
Guest
it is pretty shameful to watch the rest of the world watching us do aweful things like that.
E
EricBess
Guest
Everyone see the retaliation? I can't believe the Iraqi soldiers would stoop to our level...
The thing is, Spidey is right here, what the US troops did was on their own and irresponsible. It wouldn't surprise me if they are charged with Treason, which I believe has the potential to hold the death penalty.
What really disheartened me a bit was that our response to the retaliation seemed to be, "this is the difference between us and them - they are clearly monsters to do something like this..." while I certainly think that this form of retaliation is as base as possible, do we know for sure that it wasn't just an idependent group, just like ours was? Is the difference in the "who", the fact that they killed a civilian while we were doing this to "prisinors"?
We should certainly condemn the actions on both sides, but to be fair, we need to aknowledge that this is about individuals doing horrible things and not a comparison of nations.
The thing is, Spidey is right here, what the US troops did was on their own and irresponsible. It wouldn't surprise me if they are charged with Treason, which I believe has the potential to hold the death penalty.
What really disheartened me a bit was that our response to the retaliation seemed to be, "this is the difference between us and them - they are clearly monsters to do something like this..." while I certainly think that this form of retaliation is as base as possible, do we know for sure that it wasn't just an idependent group, just like ours was? Is the difference in the "who", the fact that they killed a civilian while we were doing this to "prisinors"?
We should certainly condemn the actions on both sides, but to be fair, we need to aknowledge that this is about individuals doing horrible things and not a comparison of nations.
R
Reverend Love
Guest
I think they used the ubiquitous "terrorist" label for their condemnation. The group responsible for the beheading I believe are a splinter faction of Al-Qaida.
I can't even begin to describe the shame I feel for the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners. The Army's excuse of lack of training, discipline, and leadership is exactly that...excuses. It comes down to treating someone with dignity. Regardless of your likes or dislikes you’re a professional, so f'ing act like one.
I can't even begin to describe the shame I feel for the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners. The Army's excuse of lack of training, discipline, and leadership is exactly that...excuses. It comes down to treating someone with dignity. Regardless of your likes or dislikes you’re a professional, so f'ing act like one.
M
mythosx
Guest
I'm with the reverend. Did anyone see the interview with one of the soldiers? She claimed that she was encouraged by others and superiors.
I don't see thier retaliation as on the same level as our mistreatment. In their culture it is acceptable. So they are actually better than us.
I want to see some disciplinary actions taken. I don't want anymore congressional hearings. No more excuses.
I don't see thier retaliation as on the same level as our mistreatment. In their culture it is acceptable. So they are actually better than us.
I want to see some disciplinary actions taken. I don't want anymore congressional hearings. No more excuses.
There was an article in one of my local papers yesterday how psychologically twisted the soldiers/interrogators get when in that setting and mindframe.... how they believe they're carrying out the US's will by extracting information that will protect the US using any means necessary....
It's hard to judge without being in their shoes, but it does seem that at a certain point, decency takes over and you know you have to draw the line and say stop. Presumably the soldiers who blew the whistle felt that, although there were some articles about one of them also, how his friends and family actually couldn't see him in that role of whistle-blower so they're a bit puzzled as to why he did it too.
It's hard to judge without being in their shoes, but it does seem that at a certain point, decency takes over and you know you have to draw the line and say stop. Presumably the soldiers who blew the whistle felt that, although there were some articles about one of them also, how his friends and family actually couldn't see him in that role of whistle-blower so they're a bit puzzled as to why he did it too.
I don't think I understand those statements. Are you saying their killing of the American was justified because of the prison abuses due to their culture of what typifies "retribution"?
E
EricBess
Guest
I don't think that's what he's saying Spidey. I think he's saying that in their culture, this is considered acceptable. We obviously don't feel that it is acceptable or that it should be acceptable.
On the other hand, in our culture, what the soldiers did was clearly incorrect. In other words, our people are already held to higher standards and the fact that they "fell farther" means that what they did was worse relative to their own "morals" than what the Iraqis did in retaliation.
I personally don't think "culture" is a good excuse and if that's the case, all the more reason we should be their trying to straighten things out in the first place...But the point is taken.
I do agree what war is very traumatizing and we cannot begin to put ourselves in the shoes of the people involved. But I think that as soon as you get to that point, you lose your humanity. I doubt an individual would get to this point alone. I suspect that there is a more systemic issue going on that needs to be corrected.
On the other hand, in our culture, what the soldiers did was clearly incorrect. In other words, our people are already held to higher standards and the fact that they "fell farther" means that what they did was worse relative to their own "morals" than what the Iraqis did in retaliation.
I personally don't think "culture" is a good excuse and if that's the case, all the more reason we should be their trying to straighten things out in the first place...But the point is taken.
I do agree what war is very traumatizing and we cannot begin to put ourselves in the shoes of the people involved. But I think that as soon as you get to that point, you lose your humanity. I doubt an individual would get to this point alone. I suspect that there is a more systemic issue going on that needs to be corrected.
I
Istanbul
Guest
Can you blame them?
Here's this massive superpower, invading your country despite international will, looking for weapons of mass destruction that don't exist. They come in, tear your government to pieces, make your life even more of a living hell than it was before...and just when you're beginning to accept it, you find out that anyone unfortunate enough to be arrested is basically being tortured while in prison.
I don't blame them for beheading someone. I'm surprised it wasn't worse.
Here's this massive superpower, invading your country despite international will, looking for weapons of mass destruction that don't exist. They come in, tear your government to pieces, make your life even more of a living hell than it was before...and just when you're beginning to accept it, you find out that anyone unfortunate enough to be arrested is basically being tortured while in prison.
I don't blame them for beheading someone. I'm surprised it wasn't worse.
M
mythosx
Guest
i concur. A beheading is actually pretty humane considering it is a quick death. Just remember there are always things worse than dying.
N
Notepad
Guest
A good point. Istanbul. Not that I sympathize with the Iraqis who are attacking Coalition troops, but they are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" they are merely "defenders of their home" during a time when another country has come in and taken over through force.
The guy seemed to be asking for it, from the reports I've seen/heard. Trying to be a humanitarian is one thing, but illegally going back to a hostile country and then sniffing around in enemy territory is just begging to be slaughtered. Who the hell does such a brainless thing? Evidently, somebody who's head isn't in the right place. (To anybody who just read that: Sorry for the pun. Offensive to the extreme, I know. But in all honesty I cannot feel any sympathy for such a retard.)
I beg to differ on the humane point. There was nothing humane about the way Berg was beheaded. If you want to see how it was done, click here, but please be warned: It took them about a minute to saw the man's head off, and he screamed uncontrollably for about the first 20 or 30 seconds. It is extremely unpleasant to watch, and I can guarantee you'll never look at the concept of "beheading" the same way again after you see it.
Also, please note: The masked man who supposedly performed the beheading is a known Al Qaida member, so I highly doubt this was an act of a person offended due to having his country invaded unjustly.
This atrocity is brought to you by the same people who fly airplanes into skyscrapers...
EricBess: I think I phrased it wrong. I think I meant what you said, that they consider the beheading justified because in their culture, something akin to death needs to answer for the prison abuses.
The guy was "not smart" for going about the country and ignoring warnings, but he didn't deserve death. He himself was not a murderer or torturer or whatever.
The guy was "not smart" for going about the country and ignoring warnings, but he didn't deserve death. He himself was not a murderer or torturer or whatever.
T
train
Guest
None of this would have happened if we ended all this back in the early 90's...
T
train
Guest
okay - maybe... but it would all be behind us by now if so...