Free will or Destiny?

[Spiderman]

Whoa, this took off in the afternoon...

Rando: I'm not going to nit-pick the definition of Pope , I know you were using the Catholic Pope as an example. To address your question: If we were "fate" and the person destined to be Pope turned to Hinduism, what then?

Well, the reason I said this is a wholly roundabout argument is because were I to believe in fate, if I was fate, either that possibility would not even exist or something else in the future would happen that would cause the person to turn back to Catholism. If his destiny is to be Pope, then he's going to get there before he dies, no matter what roads he takes before then (and that's even assuming we're talking about reaching your destiny before you "die" or pass from Earth as we know it).

DUke: You and Ura went off, but the thing I want to clear up is that I do not profess that "good" and "evil" exist just to balance each other, I just mentioned that as a possibility of why they exist. Judging whether something's "humane" or not is wholly dependent on mortal definitions; since we don't have a full understanding of abstract ideas like this and why they occur, I don't think we can definitively answer why something happens in the grand scheme of the universe.

But remember, I just threw that out as a possibility. Not a certainty or what I truly believe (because I'm not sure WHAT I truly believe, really)

 

[Rando]

I no longer wish to have this conversation.

This is not a debate that anyone can win, and I grow tired of it. I have presented my arguments for Free Will and believe that I am correct.

I do not want anyone to think that I am conceeding this debate, for I am not. I just wish to bow out before this all degrades into "I'm right."..."No your not."..."Am to."..."Nope."

 

[Spiderman]

I didn't think this was a conversation anyone could win OR lose.

 

[Rando]

It's not, and after presenting my evidence I have no more to say on the matter.

 

[DÛke]

...hmph...

Like God, destiny could be a spirit to erase some of humanity's fears. Many dislike the idea of humanity's existance without a higher power that has a purpose for making this existance...so humans created the idea of God - a supreme power that is the father of all. I don't believe in God, but I don't dismiss God's presence.

Like life after death. Life after death was created because hamnity fears the idea of not existing...so, they build up this theory that we actually live after we die, or something of that nature. I don't believe in life after death, but I certainly don't dismiss such theories.

Destiny could be made up too. It could be just something to relief humanity for its fears...it gives a person something to look forward to...it makes beleif that everyone has a purpose.

I don't like to believe in destiny and I'm not going to in any way. I will always put it in my consideration list though, I just may be wrong. I don't think anyone should believe 100% in it either, because that's deadly wrong. Give free will 50% and destiny the other half...this may be the "balance" we ALL need.

Many things in life are just a mystery...and each and every generation will have its own mysteries to unravel. There will always be questions about the mind, life, and the universe...and I would like to think that everyone in here is open-minded enough to keep their options open, and not choose one road over another just because of a theory. Live your life the way you want, if you're satisfied, than that's all that matters.

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

I'm not trying to argue for either side here (although it will become obvious which one I prefer), but that article Rando cited from that "rational" web site is bull.

They claim that it doesn't matter which one we believe for daily life, then they insult philosophers for not coming to a conclusion when we can't. That's just needless and stupid, and I take offense.
They say that "we've come a long way in the past X years" and cite all these natural forces that we've discovered as the supreme evidence that free will exists without realizing that we will probably come equally far or further in the next X years and will have new reasons to take one side or another.
This article was written by a "rational" person who is probably a fascist from the Rand school of thought. I know the type; my world studies teacher last year was one of them. They think of everything in principles, like little bite-size tablets, then insult the people who either did that long before them or try not to do it. The thought that everything is interrelated threatens their ability to think solely in principles, so they find it a fierce enemy while making it seem perfectly reasonable that it's not true.

I believe in some free will, but not entirely free will. I basically take an interpretation of close to what Ura said.
I feel no need to argue this, because it would be preaching to the converted with the people I'm trying to convert plugging their ears. They would do the same and I would plug my ears, so I'm not accusing anyone of stupidity.

But that article, which decried false assumptions, assumed too much for me to consider it seriously.
I'm sorry if I have offended anyone.

 

[Turtlewax Joe]

I'm not a practicing Cristian, but I do know my a** from a hole in the groung. And if God controls us, why do people die , go to Hell, or steal?

Don't give me this Balance s***, because I like Bhuddism and it belives in balance, and bad is more abundant good at current times. Why is there AIDs or drugs? That's not karma or balamce. Bhuddism belives in personal disipline, not a god punnishing you in the after life, you must do that your self while on Earth.

The purpose in Bhuddism is to live your own fulfilling life on Earth, and if your life is found meaningful and enlightened by the creator, you are to spend eternity in enlightenment,if not you are to serve more time on Earth in another lifetime.

Now, the creator does judge you but doese not control you. It is YOUR job to use your own FREE WILL to become enlightened.

I chose free will, because that little thing holding you back is fate and destiny, the thing making you decide to do something is FREE WILL and your calling in life is what YOU want to do to become enlightened, destiny does not choose that calling for you.

Turtlewax Joe, The Enlightened

 

[Spiderman]

Well, if you don't consider the "balance" explanation or anything resembling it, you're not really open to debating, now are you?

 

[Multani]

First, why do people think that a god of any sort has anything to do with destiny?
I will probably never believe in a god a.) because it's presence has yet to be proven, b.) why would any superior being be interested in humans? Think of gods like Planeswalkers. (The analogy is probably not that far off, at least from our prospective.) They have no interest in mortal affairs, so why do some people think that a god is meddling with destiny.

Second, I don't think destiny is predetermined at all. I think destiny is simply an ending, but not a predetermined one. I believe for every cause, there can be a near iffinity number of events that root from that cause. Some people argue that circumstances predetermined by destiny force you to make a decision. Well, those circumstances themselves, according to their argument, would be the cause of destiny, and you could trace that all the way back to the creation of the universe. The universe is destined. Right...whatever. Like I said at the beginning, destiny is only an end, but it's certainly not predetermined. (Unless you consider the destiny of all is death.)

 

[Spiderman]

Wha, everyone tired of this?

I think most people associate a "god" with destiny because I think the preconception of destiny IS that it's predetermined and people want someone to be doing the predetermining.

I think destiny means it's "foreordained" and predetermined, but I also agree with you in that there doesn't have to be a "god" associated with it.

If you believe in "destiny" anyway.