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Sammy Dead-O
Guest
Before the spiffy new enemy-color bears come in with Apocalypse, I wanted to find out what 2/2 for 2 everyone likes the most in the current Type 2.
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Sammy Dead-O
Guest
I voted for Goblin Raider, by the way. I'm very happy to have a goblin bear in standard. I can't wait for Goblin Legionnaire and Razorfin Hunter...
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terzarima
Guest
Hey, you missed Vanilla Ice, Knight Errant!! It gets my vote!
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Ephrils
Guest
I don't know about some of the poll choices, but the Grizzley Bear mold is basically something like a 2/2 for 2 with no abilities. The Kavu Titan(unkicked) is the only from that list that acturately fits the mold to me. I guess Balduvian Bears weren't on there because they're the same eh? 
Longbow Archer is more of a Black Knight recurrance. So are the newer ones I think Apocolypse has. That mold usually gives the creature a Pro:color for the same amount.
Longbow Archer is more of a Black Knight recurrance. So are the newer ones I think Apocolypse has. That mold usually gives the creature a Pro:color for the same amount.
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Dementia
Guest
I thought the Grizzly Bear term refered to any 2/2 for 2 mana, but I'm wrong a lot
Anyway, I choose those multicolor grizzly bears cause Yavi Barbarian is so good against blue.
May not be as good as River Boa overall, but it gives blue just as big a headache
And before you question my choice let me just say "YES. I judge ever cards usefulness by how bad it screws over blue"
Anyway, I choose those multicolor grizzly bears cause Yavi Barbarian is so good against blue.
May not be as good as River Boa overall, but it gives blue just as big a headache
And before you question my choice let me just say "YES. I judge ever cards usefulness by how bad it screws over blue
"
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Namielus
Guest
Crystallen silver;
lol Zadok001 is gonna kill me for metioning that one again...
lol Zadok001 is gonna kill me for metioning that one again...
I believe Ephrils is correct; it's like calling something a Gray Ogre (or Pearled Unicorm) when it's 3 mana for 2/2 and no special abilities.
Having not thought about it until I read the thread though, I voted for Longbow Archer, mostly because I'm not familiar with most of the other creatures
Having not thought about it until I read the thread though, I voted for Longbow Archer, mostly because I'm not familiar with most of the other creatures
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Cateran Emperor
Guest
Any creature that is 2/2 for two mana = a Grizzly Bear.
Other things that you can call a creature:
2/2 for three = Grey Ogre
3/3 for four = Hill Giant
1/1 for one = Mons' 'insert creature type'
Other abilities don't matter.
I voted Cloudskate, but I don't know why. I just love the little thing for a reason that I can't explain.
Other things that you can call a creature:
2/2 for three = Grey Ogre
3/3 for four = Hill Giant
1/1 for one = Mons' 'insert creature type'
Other abilities don't matter.
I voted Cloudskate, but I don't know why. I just love the little thing for a reason that I can't explain.
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Sammy Dead-O
Guest
I've usually heard/read/used "grizzly bear" as a term meaning any 2/2 for 2. If it has abilities (or drawbacks), I just consider it a nonstandard bear. David Price wrote a bit about it in the most recent Sideboard, BTW. I think Plato also mentioned the form of the grizzly somewhere, but I'm not sure which dialogue it's in.
Meanwhile, Balduvian Bears aren't on the list cuz they're not T2.
Dementia: Using your method, I'm guessing Blurred Mongoose would be the best bear ever if it just had one extra toughness...
ademis22: Vanilla Ice...that's funny. Did you come up with that?
I can't believe the Cloudskate is doing so well in the poll so far...I'm glad, though...I'm quite the ray fan...
Meanwhile, Balduvian Bears aren't on the list cuz they're not T2.
Dementia: Using your method, I'm guessing Blurred Mongoose would be the best bear ever if it just had one extra toughness...
ademis22: Vanilla Ice...that's funny
. Did you come up with that?I can't believe the Cloudskate is doing so well in the poll so far...I'm glad, though...I'm quite the ray fan...
I think having abilities matter. I mean, the only reason why a Grizzly Bear is so good is because for 2 mana, you get a standard 2/2 creature. No other color has that; they cost at least 3 mana like the Pearled Unicorn and Gray Ogre. I mean, you don't call a Suq'Ata Lancer a "Gray Ogre", it costs the same and is 2/2 but is SO much better.
IMO, that's why these tag names stuck: because they refer to standard creatures with NO abilities (which is why in constructed the Bear is the most useful).
IMO, that's why these tag names stuck: because they refer to standard creatures with NO abilities (which is why in constructed the Bear is the most useful).
Killer Joe
New member
"Grizzly Bear, oh, Grizzly Bear
A sleeping in a cave.
Grizzly Bear, oh, Grizzly Bear
A sleeping in a cave.
Please be very quiet
Very, very quiet
If you wake him
Should you shake him
He'll be very MAD!"
IMO, a "Grizzly Bear" (a generic name for others like him) is a 2/2 creature for 1 colored-mana and 1 colorless, and has NO special abilities.
For Example:
Fresh Volunteers
Grizzly Bear
Knight Errant
Balduvian Bears
Bear Cub (Portal)
However, there aren't many examples of these so, close similies should be considered.
For Example:
Cloudskate
Spineless Thug
Goblin Elite
Nomadic Elf
On a different angle, "Grizzly Bears" with a double Colored mana cost should be put in a category all of their own.
For Example:
Lord of Atlantis
Longbow Archer
Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
Steadfast Soldier
How about the Gold cards from Invasion and Apocalypse? They're casting cost is two but different colors.
For Example:
Voldalian Zombie
Gaea's Skyfolk
Yavimaya Barbarian
HUH? Whatever.
A sleeping in a cave.
Grizzly Bear, oh, Grizzly Bear
A sleeping in a cave.
Please be very quiet
Very, very quiet
If you wake him
Should you shake him
He'll be very MAD!"
IMO, a "Grizzly Bear" (a generic name for others like him) is a 2/2 creature for 1 colored-mana and 1 colorless, and has NO special abilities.
For Example:
Fresh Volunteers
Grizzly Bear
Knight Errant
Balduvian Bears
Bear Cub (Portal
)However, there aren't many examples of these so, close similies should be considered.
For Example:
Cloudskate
Spineless Thug
Goblin Elite
Nomadic Elf
On a different angle, "Grizzly Bears" with a double Colored mana cost should be put in a category all of their own.
For Example:
Lord of Atlantis
Longbow Archer
Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
Steadfast Soldier
How about the Gold cards from Invasion and Apocalypse? They're casting cost is two but different colors.
For Example:
Voldalian Zombie
Gaea's Skyfolk
Yavimaya Barbarian
HUH? Whatever.
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Dune Echo
Guest
Here's the complete list of 2/2 creatures for 2 mana legal in Standard today, partially brought to you by MTGnews.com:
White:
Fresh Volunteers - "True Grizzly Bears"
Knight Errant - "True Grizzly Bears" (nice job on the 'Vanilla Ice' nickname BTW)
Longbow Archer - "Most efficient Bears"
Steadfast Guard - "Bears Without Fear"
Blue:
Cloudskate - "Flying Bears"
Lord of Atlantis - "Swimming Bears"
Sapphire Leech - "Expensive Flying Bears"
Black:
Foul Imp - "Flying Bears That Bite Back"
Spineless Thug - "Scaredy Bears"
Whipstitched Zombie - "Expensive Bears"
Red:
Goblin Elite Infantry - "Scaredy Bears"
Goblin Raider - "Scaredy Bears"
Mogg Jailer - "Scaredy Bears"
Mogg Toady - "Scaredy Bears"
Ruby Leech - "Expensive Bears"
Green:
Deepwood Elder - no funny name for this one?
Grizzly Bears - True "Grizzly Bears" obviously
Nomadic Elf - "Rainbow Bears"
Kavu Titan - "Don't-Piss-These-Bears-Off Bears"
Vintara Snapper - "Can't Touch This Bears" (Ah, the early 90's was an interesting time period for music, don't you think?)
Gold:
Galina’s Knight - "Efficient Bears"
Llanowar Knight - "Efficient Bears"
Meddling Mage - "'I SAID NO!' Bears"
Shivan Zombie - "Efficient Bears"
Vodalian Zombie - "Efficient Bears"
Yavimaya Barbarian - "Efficient Bears"
Of course, this list doesn't include Apocalypse. That would make this list quite a bit longer, and even perhaps more amusing to read. This also does not include the 2/1 creatures abundant right now.
White:
Fresh Volunteers - "True Grizzly Bears"
Knight Errant - "True Grizzly Bears" (nice job on the 'Vanilla Ice' nickname BTW)
Longbow Archer - "Most efficient Bears"
Steadfast Guard - "Bears Without Fear"
Blue:
Cloudskate - "Flying Bears"
Lord of Atlantis - "Swimming Bears"
Sapphire Leech - "Expensive Flying Bears"
Black:
Foul Imp - "Flying Bears That Bite Back"
Spineless Thug - "Scaredy Bears"
Whipstitched Zombie - "Expensive Bears"
Red:
Goblin Elite Infantry - "Scaredy Bears"
Goblin Raider - "Scaredy Bears"
Mogg Jailer - "Scaredy Bears"
Mogg Toady - "Scaredy Bears"
Ruby Leech - "Expensive Bears"
Green:
Deepwood Elder - no funny name for this one?
Grizzly Bears - True "Grizzly Bears" obviously
Nomadic Elf - "Rainbow Bears"
Kavu Titan - "Don't-Piss-These-Bears-Off Bears"
Vintara Snapper - "Can't Touch This Bears" (Ah, the early 90's was an interesting time period for music, don't you think?)
Gold:
Galina’s Knight - "Efficient Bears"
Llanowar Knight - "Efficient Bears"
Meddling Mage - "'I SAID NO!' Bears"
Shivan Zombie - "Efficient Bears"
Vodalian Zombie - "Efficient Bears"
Yavimaya Barbarian - "Efficient Bears"
Of course, this list doesn't include Apocalypse. That would make this list quite a bit longer, and even perhaps more amusing to read. This also does not include the 2/1 creatures abundant right now.
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Gizmo
Guest
Lord Of Atlantis by about this much:
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>>------------------------------------------------------------------------<<
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Dune Echo
Guest
Spiderman: I made those up myself. Thanks for finding them to be funny. I just got the list of creatures for everything except 7th from MTGnews. As soon as the Apocalypse spoiler is confirmed, I'll go ahead and add in the others. I'm sure we can come up with some amusing names for the Llanowar Dead and Goblin Legionaire cards.
Gizmo: I'm confused, does this mean Lord of Atlantis is your favorite by a lot or a little?
Anyway this thread can be edited to include the entire list?
Gizmo: I'm confused, does this mean Lord of Atlantis is your favorite by a lot or a little?
Anyway this thread can be edited to include the entire list?
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Ephrils
Guest
I agree with Yellowjacket.
The mana cost, and abilities do matter. One colored, and 1 colorless for a 2/2 with no special abilities is the typical Bear mold.
When you add in another ability or change the casting cost to 2 colored mana instead, an older card tends to fit the bill better. I mentioned it earlier with the Longbow Archer/Black Knight comparison. I consider those 2 to be closer to each other than to a Grizzley.
Longbow Archer
WW
First strike, can block flying
2/2
White Knight
WW
First strike, Pro Black
2/2
Here you get 2 special abilities with for roughly the same cost as a Grizzley. The notable differece that make them closer to the Knights than the Bears is that they cost 2 colored mana instead of a colorless. Which is the same reason why I think the newer cards resembling them are like these more than the Grizzley Bear. The steadfast Guard would also fit them closer, because of it's 2 mana, same colored type casting cost. The reason I don't really consider these all the same aside from this, is that it's a lot easier to add 1W then WW to a deck that tries to use the same creature is as many decktypes as possible. It's a lot easier to figure out the mana curve that way, and would make one slightly more eeffieicent than the other, other with nothing special about it, than for something with a slightly more, but minute, casting cost.
The mana cost, and abilities do matter. One colored, and 1 colorless for a 2/2 with no special abilities is the typical Bear mold.
When you add in another ability or change the casting cost to 2 colored mana instead, an older card tends to fit the bill better. I mentioned it earlier with the Longbow Archer/Black Knight comparison. I consider those 2 to be closer to each other than to a Grizzley.
Longbow Archer
WW
First strike, can block flying
2/2
White Knight
WW
First strike, Pro Black
2/2
Here you get 2 special abilities with for roughly the same cost as a Grizzley. The notable differece that make them closer to the Knights than the Bears is that they cost 2 colored mana instead of a colorless. Which is the same reason why I think the newer cards resembling them are like these more than the Grizzley Bear. The steadfast Guard would also fit them closer, because of it's 2 mana, same colored type casting cost. The reason I don't really consider these all the same aside from this, is that it's a lot easier to add 1W then WW to a deck that tries to use the same creature is as many decktypes as possible. It's a lot easier to figure out the mana curve that way, and would make one slightly more eeffieicent than the other, other with nothing special about it, than for something with a slightly more, but minute, casting cost.
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Duel
Guest
Longbow Archers, probably. Not that they're the best, that goes to Lord of Atlantis or Meddling Mage, but until 2 months ago, I had never seen one, and I opened one and my mouth fell open and I started to drool. I have 3, now all I need is somewhere to use them...
Dune Echo: You should be able to edit the thread yourself since you're a Founder. If it's a post, hit the edit/delete button on the bottom of the post. If it's the thread, hit Edit on the list of blue options down towards the bottom on the right.
If you're having problems let me know and I can do it for you.
If you're having problems let me know and I can do it for you.
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Dune Echo
Guest
Spiderman: Thanks, it worked fine.
Sammy Dead-O: I went ahead and included all the legal creatures in Type II in your poll. I kept all the original vote counts. However, there is 1 unaccounted vote for the Invasion "Bears." (There's only one, because one of them was mine, someone else stated they voted for Yavimaya Barbarian.) Whomever voted for those needs to let me know, and I'll edit the votes in.
Everybody: This is a good thread, why don't we have more discussions like this? It harkens back to the old days of "The Art of Beatdown" thread.
Sammy Dead-O: I went ahead and included all the legal creatures in Type II in your poll. I kept all the original vote counts. However, there is 1 unaccounted vote for the Invasion "Bears." (There's only one, because one of them was mine, someone else stated they voted for Yavimaya Barbarian.) Whomever voted for those needs to let me know, and I'll edit the votes in.
Everybody: This is a good thread, why don't we have more discussions like this? It harkens back to the old days of "The Art of Beatdown" thread.