Fake Card: Tidal Strike, arcane blue creature damage!!

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Spiderman

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Yeah, but your first two example about the Elemental Blasts and Death/Lifegrip are more example of colors hosing the enemy colors, not hosing ALL colors equally. And I think the current thinking is not to make them anymore; I don't believe any blatant color hosing cards have been made recently (past couple of years).

I'm not against the card; like I said earlier, I think if a color is going to have an ability or effect that it normally doesn't have, then it should cost more than if it was in such a color that normally has the ability or effect.
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Note that cards crossing the "color pie" or whatever do more than just copy the effect of an existing spell and give it an increased mana cost (the interesting ones do, of course there are also the Unyaro Bee Stings and the like).

Swords to Plowshares doesn't just kill a nonwhite creature or something like that. It kills a creature and gives that creature's controller life. Path of Peace behaves similarly.

Night's Whisper doesn't do the same thing as blue card-drawing. It draws cards and then takes a point of life for each one.

Elvish Spirit Guide gives you a mana boost for a card, much like Dark Ritual, but it removes itself from the game and doesn't require an investment of other mana, while only providing one mana instead of three. It can also be used as an attacker if you want to hardcast it.

Cards like Drain Life deal direct damage (normally red) and give you life (normally white) by doing both in one spell.

Phyrexian Tribute destroys an artifact by killing two of your own creatures. I don't think that effect has been toyed with since, but that's probably because it's a dangerous one. If you make the cost too low, like B and only one creature, it's broken because it gives black access to decent artifact hate. But as it is, it's not worth using anywhere. The effect is perhaps best left alone...
 
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Spiderman

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The problem is that a lot of colors have "secondary" abilities so that they aren't actually crossing the color pie.

Swords To Plowshares doesn't "kill" a creature, it removes it from the game. White has many other similiar spells that remove creatures from the game. And of course it is the [i[main[/i] life-gaining color.

Night's Whisper is an example of black drawing cards at the cost of life, very similar to the idea of Necropotence (actually, most of what black does is at the cost of life).

Elvish Spirit Guide ala green is mana boost in the form of a "creature card". Since you discard it from your hand and not use it in play, this is probably a better example that you're trying to give since I don't think it's really been repeated (i.e. WOTC might have seen it as a mistake for green).

I guess Drain Life is another good example, although it's been part of black for so long that it just seems like a black ability.

Phyrexian Tribute is another example of black doing something at a cost to the controller. It does hokey around with artifacts a bit, not really a black thing, so saccing too creatures doesn't seem too bad. If it just got rid of an artifact ala Disenchant, then you know that's out of the color pie for black :)
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Spiderman said:
The problem is that a lot of colors have "secondary" abilities so that they aren't actually crossing the color pie.

Swords To Plowshares doesn't "kill" a creature, it removes it from the game. White has many other similiar spells that remove creatures from the game. And of course it is the [i[main[/i] life-gaining color.

Night's Whisper is an example of black drawing cards at the cost of life, very similar to the idea of Necropotence (actually, most of what black does is at the cost of life).

Elvish Spirit Guide ala green is mana boost in the form of a "creature card". Since you discard it from your hand and not use it in play, this is probably a better example that you're trying to give since I don't think it's really been repeated (i.e. WOTC might have seen it as a mistake for green).

I guess Drain Life is another good example, although it's been part of black for so long that it just seems like a black ability.

Phyrexian Tribute is another example of black doing something at a cost to the controller. It does hokey around with artifacts a bit, not really a black thing, so saccing too creatures doesn't seem too bad. If it just got rid of an artifact ala Disenchant, then you know that's out of the color pie for black :)
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You can call it "crossing the color pie" or "not crossing the color pie" as you like. The important thing is that cards like these are doing things in a way appropriate for their own color. White creature kill (everyone knows that StP removes creatures from the game--that doesn't mean it's not creature kill) doesn't target nonblack creatures or nonartifact creatures or force players to sacrifice creatures. It gets rid of a creature and gives the player some life in return.

Night's Whisper is similar to Necropotence, but the whole point is that it is NOT the same as ordinary blue card-drawing. Because it pays life for cards, it's a black card and not a blue one.

ESG doesn't really provide a mana boost as a creature. Llanowar Elves or Birds of Paradise do that. ESG is removed from the game in exchange for a mana. But it's an elf, so it's a green mana boost. It's not going to provide three mana for one, or a mana for each creature in your graveyard, or mana equal to the converted mana cost of a creature you sacrifice.

In order for black to have lifegain, it has to steal the life from somewhere (like Drain Life) unlike white or green, which generates life from mana or whatever.

And yes, a simple Disenchant (or Shatter for that matter) would be out of character for the color. But it is sacrificing creatures in order to kill an artifact, making it a black card.

The Psionic Blast effect for blue cards was abandoned long ago. Possibly it was considered out of flavor. But I think (this is speculation) that a large factor was probably the difficulty of creating a well-balanced card of this sort. Like Phyrexian Tribute, making a "fair" Psionic Blast type of card is difficult. It will most likely be either too good or relatively worthless.
 
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Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not sure what you're getting at. In your first post, you seemed to use these cards as examples of ones that "crossed the color pie". Now you're saying they're not. Which is it?

You threw in Unyaro Bee Sting in the first post, which is why I took it to be the former. The Bee Sting is a great example of "crossing the color pie". Green doesn't have any direct damage; any damage spells it had previously (and maybe since then) always hit everyone or affected a certain group (Hurricane and Sandstorm); it didn't target one specific permanent. And stuff like Tornado or Desert Storm was just "removal" ala Nature, rather than damage.

All I was saying about the other cards (which you seem to be saying in the second post) is that the effects of those cards are already part of that color pie anyway for that color. So I'm not even sure of your whole point in bringing them up.
 
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DarthFerret

Guest
Just to input something here....wasn't there a green spell that dealt damage equal to the number of cards in an opponent's hand to that opponent? The name escapes me at the moment.

Anyhow, continue on...lol
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Storm Seeker (and red came out with an equivalent later and I think there's one coming in Saviors).

It was originally in Legends, again a time before the color pie was nailed down. That's probably why it moved to red, because it was "more in flavor".
 
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Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Spiraling Embers. It was previewed a couple of days ago. It counts the cards in your hand, not the opponents, is Arcane, and can target creatures as well as a player.
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
It's rather different. Sudden Impact punishes a player for having a large hand, much like Black Vise, but at instant speed. Spiraling Embers deals direct damage damage to a creature or player (more versatile) at sorcery speed and its power is proportional to the number of cards in your hand.

If you want a big Sudden Impact, you will probably use land destruction or something of that sort to ensure that your opponent has a large hand. But if you want a big Spiraling Embers, all you need to do is use card-drawing or one of the new "sweep" cards to fill your own hand.
 
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Force of Will Smith

Guest
i think its much better too... cheesy saviors... i think B/R beefy arcane will be sick...
 
F

Force of Will Smith

Guest
hmm.. i imagine infernal harvest was the inspiration for the sweep mechanic and dark suscpicious and gerrard's wisdom were the inspiration to all of the card in hand cards..
 
F

Force of Will Smith

Guest
almost all supercheesy... but hey... i think this "cards in hand" mechanic will bite them in the oink just like affinity....

hmm.. lets see... turn 1 ritualll... ill play my rat that reduces your hand size by 1, and then the rat that gets +3/+2 or whatever... your turn.. if you play a land.. he'll get huge

or if the hand is too much of a requirement... just throw out one of the 1B 3/3 ogres

someone, i presume the japanese will do it first, as they come up with the most bizarre decktypes will make a type 2, draw your library deck, then cast one of the many, deal X damage or draw X card or do whatever where X is the number in your hand...

its going to be hilarious :D and it may involve twincast :D

sozokan+twincast= 2RUU= 20 damage
 
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