do feminine players exist in Magic Touneys/Plays???

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rYaNsPVT

Guest
nice... i thought this thread wud go to waste without any replies... but then, i realized this thread's alive...
 
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Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I think Istanbul pretty much nailed it on the head, and Michelle's article pretty much said it all. It's too bad...

Magic seems to just fall into the "male-dominated" genre, kinda like first-person shooters :) ('cause apparently it was a big shock for that one girl to beat the creator of Quake? Quake 2? at his own game a couple years back).
 
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Nyx

Guest
I thought some of you might find the following discussion I had with the author of that article interesting:
Nice article. I would like to ask your opinion on one closely related topic: don’t you think we’ve got a vicious cycle going right now? Until more women play magic, men will keep making stupid assumptions. As long as we make those stupid assumptions, why would more women bother to play? It’s not just magic either, it’s all over any kind of competitive gaming. First-person shooters, online RPGs, RTS games, paper-and-pen RPGs, heck, even tournament-level chess and checkers. Same problems, same assumptions. The real question, though, is what’s the solution?

Telling us that we’re being idiots only works to a limited extent. For example, I’ve been playing Magic since Antiquities and I’ve only met (offline) three female players in that time. Now I‘ve visited the Charm School’s site several times, I’ve read all of Shivan Hellkitten’s posts at the Dojo and I know of several female gamers at the CPA site where I’m on the forums semi-regularly, and so on and so forth. Do I know there are many women gamers? Absolutely. I run into them all the time online. But I guarantee you that I’ll be surprised when I meet a fourth in person. I can hope that I’ll behave myself, but that surprise, even without the assumptions of poor gameplay and so forth piled on top, is one of the problems you addressed in your article. Not until meeting women at Magic tournaments, comic stores, and so on is common will that surprise go away. Until it goes away, it’s going to make you unhappy.

In the video game world, I’ve seen tournaments for women only, there’s a pretty big one going on right now for Quake III Arena. But while they do get women to play, they end up encouraging the stereotype. Male players get to thinking, “The girls can only hope to win if they only play each other.” Is that really helping the situation? I think it is probably better than not having such tournaments, but something more needs to be done. What that something might be, though, no one seems to have figured out yet.
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She wrote back:

Hey, thanks for the response. You're absolutely right about the vicious
cycle, and I don't have an brilliant suggestions for a solution. There just
seems to be something about men, women, the gaming culture, or all three that
makes it so that men are way more interested in gaming than their female
counterparts.

I don't want men to feel like they have to walk on eggshells around women
gamers, that wasn't my intent. I'm sure you'll be fine when you meet "the
fourth."

The whole women-only tournament thing is a hard one, too. We had a Magic
women's invitational. It was a lot of fun and I enjoyed it, but I was
terrified the entire time that it just made us look like a big joke.

-Michelle
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Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I remember reading about that Woman's Magic Invitational on the Dojo and the flak it caused. That was WOTC/Top Deck-sponsored, right? Did anyone make any reports on it (maybe the Sideboard has something, I don't know)?
 
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Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Nyx: I thought it was interesting. I wonder why you never hear something like that on the guy side, where the sterotype is the unwashed (and I'm sure there's more) gamer, yet you might have a "clean-cut, preppie" dude. The only time I hear a vague surprise is you guys finding out your teachers (or your students finding out, in Yellowjacket's case) play Magic.

Gizmo: I'm not sure what you mean by "photo-spreads". I just saw maybe a picture in their "bios" and scenes from the tournament. If that's what you're talking about, you're saying they didn't have photos of the Duelist Invitational?
 
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Landkiller

Guest
Who on the CPA is a teacher?

I know a Magic Playing teacher, so I was just wondering.
 
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Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I thought it was obvious in my statement above, but Yellowjacket teaches music/band (obvious that he's a teacher, not of those particular subjects).
 
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Landkiller

Guest
It is obvious...yet somehow I asked anyway...don't worry about it. I know exactly why I did that.

Yes. No sleep.
 
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Gizmo

Guest
Spidey - hmm, they removed the ones I was thinking of. Alice, Alice Smiling, Alice on a Chair, Alice stood behind a chair, Alice... etc.
Each lady had like 8/10 pictures of just her. They`ve gone, though.
 
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Nyx

Guest
Nyx: I thought it was interesting. I wonder why you never hear something like that on the guy side, where the sterotype is the unwashed (and I'm sure there's more) gamer, yet you might have a "clean-cut, preppie" dude. The only time I hear a vague surprise is you guys finding out your teachers (or your students finding out, in Yellowjacket's case) play Magic.
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Oh you get that occasionally, but guys don't care. It's like when women try to turn the tables on men and treat us like sex objects to teach us not to be so vulgar because it hurts feelings; but all that happens is turn most guys on. Some things just don't work both ways. Women get upset, men get amused.

As for magic playing teachers, I've got a masters degree and have applied at a few universities, does that count? Or only if I were to actually land one?

And if you think a magic-playing teacher is unusual, how about a male-model for biker magazines?

It's not so much a surprise at the fact that women gamers exist, its actually finding one in a comic shop: admittedly one of the least women-friendly businesses on earth. I know more women who go to strip clubs (not as employees, as customers) than I do who go to comic shops. Even the ones that read comics, prefer to send a friend instead of showing up themsevles. I see men in suits in comic shops not terrible infrequently. Certainly too often to count. Women? Not often at all. At a tournament? Not once so far. ('Course I don't go to the big ones)

By the way,

*Nyx holds up an old issue of Hot Bike magazine with a spread of him showing off hir rear-end in Kakadu chaps*

I forget the exact issues they featured me in, but I was in three issues back in 1998. Well, one was Mini Truckin' the other two were Hot Bike.
 
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Almindhra

Guest
Well, I guess I might as well respond to this seeing as it pertains to me...

Yeah, I'm a female Magic player...I'm a female gamer...I'm a comic book collector even...And I don't feel like theres some stigma with me being female and a gamer...I guess it has to do with me not being a feminazi, thats probably what this all boils down to...

I feel special when I walk into a Magic tournament...Or when I went to Origins (annual gaming convention in OH)...The guys I have met in tournys are nice to me...One said that it was cool to have a female Magic player around...And I don't get upset about that...I hang around guys anyways...

I do think theres a gamer chick stereotype...As is for the male gamer...Stinky, ugly, and utterly 'locks themselves in their dungeon' scary...But I'm not like that...I don't even think I'm the stereotypical 'gamer chick'...
 
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ErinPuff

Guest
I'm fourteen, I've been playing Magic for five years or so, and yes, I'm female.. I don't go to tournaments because I'm not good enough and my collection blows.. I don't go to comic shops because I rarely leave my house unless I have to ;) I don't play many other games because I have no money.. I'd like to get into some other games, but I'm lazy and broke.

Among the people I usually play Magic with, I'm one of two girls.. it doesn't bother me.. I don't think it bothers the guys too much either, though they do get kinda weird when I beat them.. :D

[edit: I hit submit too soon]
 
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Azreal the Soulmaster

Guest
wow, its kinda funny i mean in my play group of about eight 4 players are female, pretty good ratio wouldn't ya think, so i guess this thing doesn't effect me i treat the female players as i would the male player, and the female players are really great players in fact Page(a player in my group) has the only rival to my B/U
but come to think of it when i go to my local comic book shop, save beth the co owner i don't see many other female gamers, i saw one playing legends of the five rings, but that was about it
 
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