Creatures that are directly superior to others?

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by arhar, Nov 21, 2001.

  1. arhar Member

    I've been thinking... how many creatures can you name that are directly superior to some other ones? In everything except for creature type (for example, I heard an argument that Druid Lyrist is much better than Elvish Lyrist in Extended because of Engineered Plague and cards like that) I can think of:

    Escape Artist and Metathran Soldier - both are 1/1 for 1U, unblockable, but you can return EA to your hand. It's funny, because back in the day when Destiny just came out, I only played for a couple of months and used to think it's a decent card :eek:

    Multiple 2/2s for 2R with abilities and Grey Ogre

    Multiple 2/2s for 1G with abilites and Grizzly Bears

    Multiple 3/3s for 3R with abilities and Hill Giant :D

    Kavu Agressor and Balduvian Barbarians - Both are 3/2 for 2R, but KA has a kicker.

    Yavimaya Wurm and Craw Wurm - both are 6/4 for 4GG, but YW has trample.

    Anything else?
  2. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Kavu Aggressor and Balduvian Barbarians don't work - 2R vs. 1RR.

    About twelve thousand red creatures for R and Mons Goblin Raiders.
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Are you talking about cards that are the same cc but superior? Or also early "cheap" cards that were "fixed" later with a higher cc (like Regrowth vs. Elven Cache)?
  4. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Grey Ogre vs.
    Sedge Troll
    Granite Gargoyle
    Arc Mage

    Grizzly Bear vs.
    Wild Mongrel
    Spectral Bears
    Nomadic Elf
    Fresh Volunteers / Knight Errant

    Hill Giant vs.
    Warmonger
    That cheesy dude from Mirage who can turn colorless
    Phyrexian Scuta (does this count?)


    Here is a slightly different comparison
    Serra Angel vs.
    Radiant Archangel
    Wayward Angel
    Avenging Angel
    Lightning Angel
  5. Lotus Mox New Member

    Dakmor Lancer vs.
    Dark Hatchling

    Goblin Hero vs.
    Goblin Spelunkers
    Goblin Chariot
    Enslaved Scout
    Goblin Cavaliers
    Slingshot Goblin

    Diabolic Tutor vs.
    Demonic Tutor

    Ironroot Treefolk vs.
    Redwood Treefolk
    Blanchwood Treefolk

    Pearl Unicorn vs.
    Regal Unicorn
    Devout Witness
    Knight Errant
    Fresh Volunteers
    Patrol Hound
    Sunscape Battlemage
    Soul Charmer
    and many more :)

    Ward of Lights, Lightning Reflexes, Mystic Veil vs.
    Cho-Manno's Blessing, Flame Sword, Alexi's Cloak

    Abandon Hope vs.
    Last Rites

    These are just the tip of the Iceberg ;)
  6. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Boo! Hiss!
  7. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I glossed over the "creature" in the title.

    I don't know if you can compare Grizzly Bears to Spectral Bears. Isn't the latter 3/3 and has a condition on it?

    Also, the comparison is probably only good within the same color and maybe within commonality (i.e. Benalish Hero vs. Timber Wolves).
  8. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    I just scrolled down and posted this post without relizing it was about creatures, not all spells.
  9. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Eager Cadet vs.

    Benalish Hero
    Timber Wolves
    Savannah Lions
    Icatian Javelineers
    Icatian Soldiers
    Nomads En-Kor
    Death Speakers
    etc.

    And if we go into non-creatures, the obvious comparison:

    Shock vs. Lightning Bolt.
  10. Mongoose Man Gnome of Doom

    No no no, if it were non creatures it'd have to be singe V Bolt :p
  11. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    The whole point of this is to find cards that are directly superior to others.

    That means that they have an identical casting cost...are an identical type (no instant vs. sorcery), and there's an obvious superiority.

    Steadfast Guard vs. White Knight doesn't work, for example, because while White Knight has first strike and pro: black, Steadfast Guard doesn't tap to attack...and while the White Knight gives a more effective combat creature, Steadfast Guard swings without making you worry about holding creatures back for defense. Neither is *better*, but both do something the other doesn't, making them simply *different*.

    Eager Cadet vs. Savannah Lions works, however, because both cost W...both have 1 toughness...in fact, there's no difference between them except that Savannah Lions have an extra point of power, making them directly superior. Eager Cadet vs. Tundra Wolves also works, because while both cost W and both are 1/1s, one has first strike and the other doesn't.
  12. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    I disagree with the instant v. sorcery thing. Surely Lightning Bolt is better than Strafe?

    Your criteria would also not allow Seeker of Skybreak vs. Fyndhorn Brownie, even though the former is superior 99.9999999999% of the time.
    Seeker of Skybreak
    1G
    Creature - Elf
    2/1
    Tap: Untap target creature.

    Fyndhorn Brownie
    2G
    Creature - Brownie
    1/1
    2G, Tap: Untap target creature.

    Creature type is a factor so rarely that I don't think it should be considered except in cases like that of the Druid/Elvish Lyrist. And even then, Coat of Arms, another commonly used card, could help make them bigger.
    Continuous abilities such as flying shouldn't make a creature directly superior, because there are lots of cards that affect flyers negatively as well as positively (certainly more than in the case of creature types).

    Not only is Escape Artist better than Metathran Solider, Metathran Soldier (and thus Escape Artist) are both better than Hazy Homunculus and better than Sneaky Homunculus.

    The most important reason that you can't compare Kavu Agressor and Balduvian Barbarians is not that one costs 2R and one costs 1RR (I have yet to see a card that favors a cost of 1RR over 2R), but that Kavu Agressor can't block. That's the main reason they are different cards.

    And Singe isn't 100% directly inferior to Lightning Bolt - you could turn a big creature black and prevent it from attacking for a turn with Light of Day in play. :)
  13. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Instant vs. Sorcery is a HUGE difference.
  14. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, as the title noted, I think this was supposed to talk about just creature comparisons, as you could get into Elven Cache vs. Regrowth, Balance vs. that other white spell, etc.

    I don't think you can compare Seeker vs. Brownie because there's too many differences: casting cost, power/toughness, and cost of the ability. There's probably LOTS more if you want to take all of those variables in account.

    I think the main idea is comparing what costs the same in that color and seeing which is better. Granite Gargoyles are far superior than Gray Ogre, because for the same cc in the same color, you get flying and pumpable toughness in the former. And they were even in the same set together!

    And I think flying does make a difference because it's such a common evasive ability. I mean, given the chance, you try to take such creatures in draft, right?
  15. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    By jove, I do believe he's got it.

    We're comparing creatures, looking for ones that are *directly* superior. As in, creature A has abilities that creature B doesn't, and creature B doesn't have any abilities that creature A doesn't.
  16. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I DID get it before. I'm just trying to help lead others "towards the light" :p
  17. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Another addition to the Grizzly Bear comparison:
    Kavu Titan
  18. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Da Bears?

    Kavu Titan
    Nomadic Elf
    Wild Mongrel
    Muscle Sliver

    There are a ZILLION that are close, but are 2/1. Think 'River Boa'.
  19. RabidKimba I loathe the undead.

    Flametongue Kavu > Viashino Warror, from what I understand. Well, except for that time that I played vs U/W Iradecent Angel control, then FTK becomes a bad Viashino.
  20. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Hurloon Minotaur --> Hurloon Shaman (better)

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