Commander 2019: Spidey (Primal Genesis) vs Mooseman (Mystic Intellect)

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
Looks like you get the original P/T...... does that mean game?
Isn't your Vat creature gone at my EOT?
 

Spiderman

CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant
Staff member
Oversoul thinks the copies remain at 1/1 also, so I'm going to do some digging as well.

The Vat creature is gone, isn't it? It was actually gone at my EOT - it was a copy of the Manticore.
 

Spiderman

CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant
Staff member
No, it obviously helps me :) Just trying to be fair and make sure of everything.

I forgot to untap everything as I was concentrating on the copy question :rolleyes:

Forest
Use the Vat to make a Manticore copy
Responses?



Spidey: 7
Dmg from commander: 0/21
Hand: 6
Library: 63
Command Zone (cast twice): 2RGW
Battlefield:

(T,U,U,U,U) Plains x5
(T,U,U,U,U,U) Forest x6
(T,U,U) Mt x3
(U) Gruul Turf (~ ETB tapped.; When ~ ETB, return a land I control to its owner's hand.; T: Add RG to my mana pool)
(U) Blossoming Sands (~ ETB tapped.; When ~ ETB, I gain 1 life.; T: Add G or W to my mana pool)

Colossal Majesty (At the beginning of my upkeep, if I control a creature with power 4 or greater, draw a card)

(T) Mimic Vat (Imprint-Whenever a nontoken creature dies, I may exile that card. If I do, return each other card exiled with ~ to its owners graveyard.; 3, T: Create a token that's a copy of a card exiled with ~. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step)

(U) Bird creature token (3/3; Flying)
(U) Bird creature token (3/3; Flying)
(U) Bird creature token (3/3; Flying)
(U) Feldon of the Third Path (2/3; 2R, T: Create a token that's a copy of target creature card in my graveyard, except it's an artifact in addition to its other types. It gains haste. Sac it at the beginning of the next end step)
(U) Ghired, Conclave Exile (Legendary Creature-Human Shaman; 2/5; When ~ ETB, create a 4/4 green Rhino creature token w/trample.; Whenever ~ attacks, populate. The token ETB tapped and attacking (To populate, create a token that's a copy of a creature token I control))
(U) Rhino creature token (4/4)
(U) Heart-Piercer Manticore (4/3; When ~ ETB, I may sac another creature. If I do, ~ deals dmg equal to that creature's power to any target.; Embalm 5R (5R, Exile this card from my graveyard: Create a token that's a copy of it, except it's a white Zombie Manticore w/no mana cost. Embalm only as a sorcery))

Graveyard: Soul Foundry, Krosan Verge, Farseek, Song of the Worldsoul , Evolving Wilds, Myriad Landscape
Exile: Atla Palani-Nest Tender, Heart-Piercer Manticore (Vated), Beast Within, Roc Egg
===================================================================================
Mooseman: 8
Dmg from commander: 0/21
Hand: 3
Library: 75
Command Zone (cast once): 2URW Sevinne, the Chronoclasm (Human Wizard, 2/2, Prevent all damage that would be dealt to ~. Whenever you cast your first instant or sorcery spell from your graveyard each turn, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy)
Battlefield:

(U) Plains
(T) Island
(U) Mountain
(T) Azorius Chancery (, L, ~ ETB tapped. When ~ comes into play, return a land you control to its owner's hand. T: Add WU to your mana pool.)
(U) Prairie Stream (Plains Island, L, ETB Tapped, unless you control 2 or more basic lands. T:U or W)
(U) Izzet Guildgate (Gate, L, ETB Tapped. T: U or R)
(T) Ash Barrens (, L, {T}: Add {C} to your mana pool. Basic landcycling {1} ({1}, Discard this card: Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.))

Ghostly Prison (E, Creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays 2 for each creature they control that's attacking you. )

(U) Guttersnipe (Goblin Shaman, 2/2, Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, ~ deals 2 damage to each opponent.)

Graveyard: Terramorphic Expanse, Faithless Looting (FB:2R),Divine Reckoning (FB: 5WW), Fervent Denial (FB:5UU), Mandate of Peace, Farm // Market(Aftermath 2U), Wall of Stolen Identity, Dusk/Dawn(AM:3WW), Pramikon, Sky Rampart
Exile: Ray of Distortion(FB 4WW), Purify the Grave FB(W)), Mass Diminish (FB:3U),
 

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
BTW - you don't Draw from Majesty since all your creatures are 1/1s

I also have no response to the Vat
 

Spiderman

CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant
Staff member
Whoops, my bad about the draw. Putting it back

No saccing of anyone when it ETB.
Oversoul stopped (or hasn't been on) since the last posts in the Rules so I'll keep going as we assume the copy of a token is at "full strength".

Attack with everyone but Feldon and pay 12, Ghired triggers and creates a full strength Rhino token. It and the Manticore copy are the only ones at full strength (I starred them for reference)
Responses/blocks/game?


Spidey: 7
Dmg from commander: 0/21
Hand: 5
Library: 64
Command Zone (cast twice): 2RGW
Battlefield:

(T,T,T,T,T) Plains x5
(T,T,T,T,T,T) Forest x6
(T,T,T) Mt x3
(U) Gruul Turf (~ ETB tapped.; When ~ ETB, return a land I control to its owner's hand.; T: Add RG to my mana pool)
(T) Blossoming Sands (~ ETB tapped.; When ~ ETB, I gain 1 life.; T: Add G or W to my mana pool)

Colossal Majesty (At the beginning of my upkeep, if I control a creature with power 4 or greater, draw a card)

(T) Mimic Vat (Imprint-Whenever a nontoken creature dies, I may exile that card. If I do, return each other card exiled with ~ to its owners graveyard.; 3, T: Create a token that's a copy of a card exiled with ~. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step)

(T,A) Bird creature token (3/3; Flying)
(T,A) Bird creature token (3/3; Flying)
(T,A) Bird creature token (3/3; Flying)
(U) Feldon of the Third Path (2/3; 2R, T: Create a token that's a copy of target creature card in my graveyard, except it's an artifact in addition to its other types. It gains haste. Sac it at the beginning of the next end step)
(T,A) Ghired, Conclave Exile (Legendary Creature-Human Shaman; 2/5; When ~ ETB, create a 4/4 green Rhino creature token w/trample.; Whenever ~ attacks, populate. The token ETB tapped and attacking (To populate, create a token that's a copy of a creature token I control))
(T,A) Rhino creature token (4/4)
*(T,A) Rhino creature token (4/4)
*(T,A) Heart-Piercer Manticore (4/3; When ~ ETB, I may sac another creature. If I do, ~ deals dmg equal to that creature's power to any target.; Embalm 5R (5R, Exile this card from my graveyard: Create a token that's a copy of it, except it's a white Zombie Manticore w/no mana cost. Embalm only as a sorcery))

Graveyard: Soul Foundry, Krosan Verge, Farseek, Song of the Worldsoul , Evolving Wilds, Myriad Landscape
Exile: Atla Palani-Nest Tender, Heart-Piercer Manticore (Vated), Beast Within, Roc Egg
===================================================================================
Mooseman: 8
Dmg from commander: 0/21
Hand: 3
Library: 75
Command Zone (cast once): 2URW Sevinne, the Chronoclasm (Human Wizard, 2/2, Prevent all damage that would be dealt to ~. Whenever you cast your first instant or sorcery spell from your graveyard each turn, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy)
Battlefield:

(U) Plains
(T) Island
(U) Mountain
(T) Azorius Chancery (, L, ~ ETB tapped. When ~ comes into play, return a land you control to its owner's hand. T: Add WU to your mana pool.)
(U) Prairie Stream (Plains Island, L, ETB Tapped, unless you control 2 or more basic lands. T:U or W)
(U) Izzet Guildgate (Gate, L, ETB Tapped. T: U or R)
(T) Ash Barrens (, L, {T}: Add {C} to your mana pool. Basic landcycling {1} ({1}, Discard this card: Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.))

Ghostly Prison (E, Creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays 2 for each creature they control that's attacking you. )

(U) Guttersnipe (Goblin Shaman, 2/2, Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, ~ deals 2 damage to each opponent.)

Graveyard: Terramorphic Expanse, Faithless Looting (FB:2R),Divine Reckoning (FB: 5WW), Fervent Denial (FB:5UU), Mandate of Peace, Farm // Market(Aftermath 2U), Wall of Stolen Identity, Dusk/Dawn(AM:3WW), Pramikon, Sky Rampart
Exile: Ray of Distortion(FB 4WW), Purify the Grave FB(W)), Mass Diminish (FB:3U),
 

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
Yeah, that's game. Good one. I could only draw 2 cards from Faithless looting and I got nothing that helps.
You got yours going very well.
I just didn't have enough land to get more spells cast for the guttersnipe.
I could have killed all the creatures with Rolling Temblor, but I had no other win conditions, so I was hoping to squeak another turn out with the gutter snipe.
 

Spiderman

CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant
Staff member
Good game indeed! I almost misplayed that, I should have killed your Guttersnipe last turn instead of the Wall.... I was fortunate to keep getting land to keep attacking...
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Oversoul stopped (or hasn't been on) since the last posts in the Rules so I'll keep going as we assume the copy of a token is at "full strength".
Sorry. Been pretty busy lately. I looked around a bit and it's possible that this question invokes layers, in which case I think you'd be right because the effect of copying something is in Layer 1 and the effect of changing a creature's base stats is in Layer 7b. But I'm not clear on whether the layer issue even comes up and layers are dumb anyway and I don't have the knowledge base to figure that one out. We need to lure real rules experts to this site. :p
 

Spiderman

CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant
Staff member
It's okay. Mooseman and I agree, although to his detriment, so we just continued on. If it turns out to be the other way, we'll try to remember for next time when he plays this :)
 
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