Blue is bad in multiplayer

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by TheCasualOblivion, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Some fun blue multiplayer stuff off the top of my head...

    One guy I know built a deck that used Rhystic Deluge and Cowardice for fun creature bouncing. He also built a deck based around Sunder and Blood Oath...

    I've seen decks that used the Thalakos creatures (along with the Dauthis) and some blue support.

    Phasing can be awesome.

    Stasis. Well, that's only fun if you're particularly deranged.

    I built a High Tide deck that was pretty annoying in multiplayer.

    The most awesome multiplayer deck ever, Relentless Pony, uses no color other than blue (in the maindeck).

    Zur's Weirding.

    I've seen some oddball Wizard-based decks that worked decently in multiplayer.
  2. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Zur's Weirding is always fun in multiplayer - usually makes for a rather fast game as well :)

    On the topic of phasing, my old roommate had a deck that used Phasing, Zuran Orb, and Balance for really sick results - you can imagine how nasty it would be to be facing a pair of Crocodiles w/ nothing to block them - nasty...

    -Ferret

    "I've always been found of FISH! decks - it's a shame that WotC stopped making new ones..."
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, blue was pretty strong back then. I think the game and decks have "evolved" so that that kind of thing probably can't happen now though :)
  4. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Thankfully that's true. Most "tier one" decks require a little more finesse to play - with the exception of those decks that claim to be Sligh decks (sorry, couldn't help myself :D). Most of Blue's old counters are gone and replaced by slightly more expensive (or less powerful versions), and steps were taken to slow them down (*cough cough affinity*) so that it could be a more competitve colour...

    -Ferret

    "Of course, more competitive still doesn't make it a friendly colour"
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, if you're playing Vintage or Type Casual, you'd still have access to the old cards, but new cards and mechanics would make it more difficult (I assume :) ) for it to run roughshod now.
  6. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Or Legacy...
  7. Dragon Bloodthirsty New Member

    I really think Red is the absolute worst. I'm still feeling out blue and green; green has issues, begining with flying. Blue doesn't. Green has potential, but I think blue does too.

    I do know that standard Draw Go tactics don't work well if there's people wise to how to deal with it. (And if there's somebody who plays blue alot, and you hate them, try making a deck that uses one and two mana cost creatures with whatever removal is availible in your color. Red or black works best for me; white works well enough).

    Blue draws cards, and that helps an awful lot in Multi; blue steals things too, and I don't know if there's a single better mechanic blue has for multi.

    Blue hasn't been dominating our group, but it's made it's presence felt. Nobody ever says "oh, Islands, we never see those anymore".
  8. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    A few things I've learned playing Blue Multiplayer:

    1: Like it was mentioned above, stealing creatures really works well. Sometimes you can steal creatures with weird abilities and do crazy things, like stealing a cleric and healing other peoples stuff, or stealing an Ernham Djinn and giving the 5/5 Black creature Forestwalk.

    2: Big Fat Flyers. Don't go overboard and make everyone mad, but having piles of Big Flyers is a blue specialty. Go with it. Especially good are the 2/4s like Ghost Ship and Spire Golem. They don't have high power and aren't too scary, but at the same time block real nice.

    3: Counterspells are not for control, they are for emergencies. I usually pack 4-12 counterspells in a Blue Multiplayer deck. The key is to know their role. You are not going to control anything with counterspells in a multiplayer game. What you can do however is save them for when somebody casts something that will really mess things up. Just the threat of them can usually change other peoples games.

    4: Most important of all!!!!!!! BE DIPLOMATIC!! You're playing blue and you have a target on your chest. You need to keep everyone from getting angry at you. If you start putting out a pile of flyers, don't attack with them. Attack with one of them, against somebody who can take it. Do as much damage with flying as you think you can get away with, and nothing more. Counterspells can also be social. Especially if your playing a 4 player game, and when you counter something, the other 2 players thank you. Don't try to control things, or mess up anyones game. Just pop off the minimum countermagic to prevent anyone from gaining the advantage. Make alliances. If somebody targets you, pick somebody else and offer them friendship. "Help me deal with him, and I'll leave you alone"

    5: Lay in wait. If your opponents decide to gang up on you because you're blue, there's really nothing you can do. If they are polite enough not to do that, you now have a goal. Sit back, be inconspicuous, and aim not at winning, but at staying alive and being one of the last 2 players. Blue can't beat 4 people but it sure can beat 1. Stay out of the way, and try to get everyone to kill each other. Try to keep a low profile, let them beat on you, and kill your stuff as long as your survival isn't threatened, but keep yourself strong enough, and have enough held back that when its down to 2, you can gain control. If someone is almost dead, help finish them off. Your goal is to get others killed off.

    Sure this stuff doesn't work if people decide to take you out, but I've found in simple friendly casual games, people generally don't do that. My friends might be weird, but that's how I've found it. Its amazing how well I've done over the years playing simple Big Blue decks or W/U Swords/Serra/Wrath/Counter/Control Magic in multiplayer games. It just takes some finess, and knowing what you can and cannot do.
  9. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    One of the guys who played in my old groupe used that strategy constantly. Most of our games were 4-5 player and each of us had our mode of play that went w/ our most expensive cards (I had a Lotus, Jim had his Time Walk (BLUE!), Matt had his Library of Alex., and the man we always ignored was Ken w/ his Forcefield.) We'd pound each other back and forth while Ken sat back behind his wall of critters. We'd be wasting artifact destruction on Icy Manipulators, Millstones, etc) and when it became just one player and Ken he'd suddenly do something sick and we'd all be dead w/ him sitting there smiling meekly.

    Needless to say that the "Laying in Wait" strategy is a sound one....

    -Ferret

    "Beware of the quiet ones"
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Best not to be an obvious threat!

    But didn't you guys learn and start pounding on him after some games? :)
  11. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    You bet we did! I would always make sure that I had some form of artifact destruction in my deck (and preferably, my hand) to deal w/ his Forcefield the second it hit play...

    -Ferret

    "...of course, using an Icy Manipulator on them worked as well, back then..."
  12. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    A lot like Ferret's example, I can think of a time this really held true (although it was much more recently). I was in a three-way game and playing red-based control of some sort, I think. Anyway, one of my opponents appeared to be playing a blue deck with a red splash. He couldn't seem to get going, and I was already taking a beating at the hands of white creatures. I had only just managed to dig myself out of that hole and the two of us were at a standstill, with me only needing to find a few more points of damage to burn him to death on my next turn. I say, "go" and the nearly forgotten blue player casts Sunder, followed by a Blood Oath to my head. He then went on to easily dispatch of the white player.
  13. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    Another thing I've found with multiplayer is that unfocused decks work better. I'm sure there are ways to metagame for multiplayer, but I'm not really fond of the format, and I've never seen anyone who was really that good either. Outside of that, I've found that decks just stuffed with powerful cards with no real point work better than a deck designed to do something. Designed to do something basically means optimized for duels(unless of course its optimized for multiplayer, but again, I'm not real familiar).

    Blue decks tend to be focused and specific, one reason a traditional blue deck would be seen as a liability in a multiplayer game. In fact, the better the blue deck in a duel, the worse I would expect it to do in a multiplayer game.

    I guess its good that I play crappy(tournament wise) blue decks then. To be perfectly honest, the Counter/White Removal/Flying deck I threw together was just some random crap I had lying around not doing anything. Maybe the trick is to build a bad blue deck, or at least, bad for duels.
  14. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    So, is the idea that blue is actually bad in multiplayer, or that monoblue is? Not to be picky, but the title of the thread uses the former, and I think it's a much less defensible position. Blue has always been a great secondary or splash color.

    Which is not to say that I think monoblue is bad in multiplayer, but it's a bit less far-fetched as a statement...
  15. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    Well, for me specifically, I've been talking about a blue deck that splashed white. I think that deck was running about 14-16 land that produced blue mana, as opposed to 8-10 white.

    The deck was first and foremost blue. I have also done well with Big Blue Flying decks in multiplayer in the past.
  16. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    My experience has been different then. There's one guy who has "unfocused" decks (loosely "untuned") to the point of throwing in cards and making the deck greater than 60 cards, which can be okay in some situations in MP, but usually not all that great. Most of the other guys are good at recognizing threats (except enchantments) and once a powerful card hits the table, we usually end up take care of it.
  17. Killer Joe Active Member

    But I'm going to have to agree about the whole 'unfocused decks' thing. I have seen my share of random-crappy-unfocused-unprepared-aimless-unagressive decks that have won large multi-player games.

    Why IS that? :confused:
  18. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    I once read a clever saying (by whom, I forget): "Never fear the best marksman. Fear the worst one."

    I think it comes down to the fact that most people prepare decks for certain formats and are ready for planned assaults and focused strategies. All of a sudden someone comes in w/ no plan and just fun cards that they use because they either like the artwork or just think that they look like a good idea at the time. All of a sudden a card comes out that no one would expect to see in a deck and everyone is going "huh? Why?" and they're suddenly having to deal w/ an uncertain threat.

    -Ferret

    "Randomness and confusion are parts of the game. Isn't it great?"
  19. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    It's just Murphy's Law.

    If you have a focus to your deck, you will get mana screwed, ganged on, or whathaveyou to make sure you do not get to carry out the focus.

    If you have no focus, those dark forces will not conspire against you, and your random stuff will just flow smoothly.

    Thus, an image of greater power is created.
  20. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I have to say that train's B/G/W control deck has been great in dealing with ALL decks I've faced in my group so far, unfocused or not... I play it only once as it drags out the games to at least an hour, which is pretty long when you only have 2-3 hours to play total and you want to get to other decks :)

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