T
TURD CUTTER!!!
Guest
Maybe the store was either really desparate or going out of business.
Crumb: Are you sure that a Big Mac is a burger?
Crumb: Are you sure that a Big Mac is a burger?
S
Salacious Crumb
Guest
yes, you can call me Mr.Crumb, apollo.
And, i don't care about icelands prices because i'm gonna get the whole set for free
not to brag or anything
Hoipa
And, i don't care about icelands prices because i'm gonna get the whole set for free
not to brag or anything
Hoipa
T
terzarima
Guest
Mindy: I do that too, they've been asking those questions for about 3 months now...
And since booster prices have increased (what 25 cents?) the boxes are bound too as well
And since booster prices have increased (what 25 cents?) the boxes are bound too as well
D
Daggertooth
Guest
Any changes would most likely disrupt the sealed format and booster drafts. And the changes you proposed would severly hurt any who are trying to sell singles.
I, of course, would enjoy a price reduction.
Daggertooth
I, of course, would enjoy a price reduction.
Daggertooth
D
Duel
Guest
I would much rather pay $50 for a box with 2/3 the cards of the $75 dollar ones.
And a price cut is in order, I think. Or maybe the store I go to just horribly overcharges.... yeah, that's probably it.
And a price cut is in order, I think. Or maybe the store I go to just horribly overcharges.... yeah, that's probably it.
H
Hellion
Guest
Over here at Singapore, the packs for older (not even tat old) boosters have skyrocketed over the past few months.....for your info, 1 Singapore Dollar is about 1.25 US.
1 Visions Booster S$12
1 Urza Saga Booster S$7
1 Urza Legecy Booster S$8
1 Mirage Booster S$5
These are only some of the prices I discovered......they are pretty ridiculous even for a fanatical gamer like me.
I now end up scaveging for singles from other gamers' files.
1 Visions Booster S$12
1 Urza Saga Booster S$7
1 Urza Legecy Booster S$8
1 Mirage Booster S$5
These are only some of the prices I discovered......they are pretty ridiculous even for a fanatical gamer like me.
I now end up scaveging for singles from other gamers' files.
M
Mikeymike
Guest
It would absolutely destroy the collectability of the game. Collectors would be pissed because they blew thousands of dollars on a game thinking that it could be an investment, only to have it become worthless. Dealers would be pissed b/c they make an easy $20-40 a box at the price right now and keep a decent stock. Dropping the price would make them $5-10 profit on a box, why would they want to bother keeping them in stock? Plus there secondary singles sales would be flushed down the toilet.
That box Goku bought was probably priced wrong and the person who rang it up didn't know gaming.
That box Goku bought was probably priced wrong and the person who rang it up didn't know gaming.
L
Lotus Mox
Guest
Mikeymike, collectors wouldn't lose 1000$, remember that old cards are Out of Print. Their collections should increase in value because cheaper new cards would attract many new magic players who also want some old cards.
I highly doubt that a dealer makes $40 profit per sold box, your argument that Dealers wouldn't gain as much money if a Box were cheaper is flawed because when they make only half the profit per box it wouldn't matter because they probably would sell twice as much.(which is the whole point of this thread BTW)
The only people which were a bit pissed were collectors, not because their collections are ruined mind you, because collecting the new cards would be a bit pointless, but afaik real collectors collect mainly foils anyway, as it's way too easy (albeit expensive) to collect normal cards, and WotC should make foils a bit more rarer, to please collectors a bit.
Wizards doesn't make profit through the secondary singles market, so it shouldn't care about it too much.
While singles prices would drop, people could still sell complete sets for reasonable prices.
BTW can someone tell me the release price of an Alpha booster, and the price of a recent booster?
I highly doubt that a dealer makes $40 profit per sold box, your argument that Dealers wouldn't gain as much money if a Box were cheaper is flawed because when they make only half the profit per box it wouldn't matter because they probably would sell twice as much.(which is the whole point of this thread BTW)
The only people which were a bit pissed were collectors, not because their collections are ruined mind you, because collecting the new cards would be a bit pointless, but afaik real collectors collect mainly foils anyway, as it's way too easy (albeit expensive) to collect normal cards, and WotC should make foils a bit more rarer, to please collectors a bit.
Wizards doesn't make profit through the secondary singles market, so it shouldn't care about it too much.
While singles prices would drop, people could still sell complete sets for reasonable prices.
BTW can someone tell me the release price of an Alpha booster, and the price of a recent booster?
I actually don't find it hard to believe that dealers can make $40 profit on a box because some brick-n-mortar stores sell a box for $120, while some places on the Net (and maybe brick-n-mortar) sell them for $80. Now I'm think those places that sell them at the lower price are still making a slight profit ('cause otherwise it doesn't make sense), so the ones selling them for $120 are making "big bucks".
In fact, wasn't there a thread a while back talking how WOTC was only gojng to sell to certain dealers (and I got the impression they were the ones selling at the higher prices)?
Gizmo: I'm not sure who your statement was directed at, but yours only makes sense IF the number of boosters in the box stays the same. If the number decreases, then the price for a booster pack can remain at the same current price.
Maybe the person missed the 0 ringing up the box of Ice Age so instead of $120 it was $12....
In fact, wasn't there a thread a while back talking how WOTC was only gojng to sell to certain dealers (and I got the impression they were the ones selling at the higher prices)?
Gizmo: I'm not sure who your statement was directed at, but yours only makes sense IF the number of boosters in the box stays the same. If the number decreases, then the price for a booster pack can remain at the same current price.
Maybe the person missed the 0 ringing up the box of Ice Age so instead of $120 it was $12....
G
Gizmo
Guest
Internet sites have lower rents to pay - they have significantly lower overheads. Also they typically sell to a wider audience and so buy in bulk at lower prices.
I know several card shop owners personally, and any suggestion that they are making 'big bucks' of any kind is pretty silly.
I know several card shop owners personally, and any suggestion that they are making 'big bucks' of any kind is pretty silly.
G
Gizmo
Guest
At least of sales of sealed cards - there is PLENTY of money to be made in singles dealings.
R
Rando
Guest
I went to a "Going out of buisness" sale of a local baseball card shop, and I got a box of Fallen Empires and Homelands for $10 each, and a box of Ice age and 4th Edition for $15 each.
No kidding. It was cool.
I also atended an auction out in the middle of Kansas once for a hobby shop that also went out of buisness, and I got 2 boxes of Tempest, 1 box of Mirrage, 1/2 box of Wetherlight and 1/2 box of Visions for $75.
That was pretty cool too.
M
Mikeymike
Guest
Lotus Mox, you're right there is an error in my arguement. I was comparing the situation in my head to the Legends debacle, which is different as you mention b/c it deals with oop's. My friend tells me stories of how Killer Bees used to be a $25-30 card and highly sought after. Then Wizards reprinted it in Chronicles and/or 4th (can't remember) as an UNCOMMON and destroyed the Legends value. Still, there would be a strange discrepency in the game if the current market was supposed to hold its value while new sets were being printed with the power rares being priced at $2-4 coming from $1 packs. Then 8th edition comes out and BoP is $3 b/c its so easy to get.
My local dealer sells his boxes for $95 and I can haggle him down to around $80-85. Their cost is somewhere around $55-65. $30 boxes would mean their cost is probably $18-22, just because cost and profit are cut by 2/3s doesn't mean demand would increase 3 fold. Now my dealer has to stock 3 times as many boxes as before to make the same amount of money, and he has a tough time getting Wizards to deliver boxes as it is right now.
Oh yeah, I think Alpha was $2 or $2.25 a pack.
Gizmo, here's how it would hurt the singles market. If I could buy a pack $.80-$1.00 chances are I would buy more packs (b/c I'm a cardboard junkie), lowering my need for singles. Sure, I still need some older cards, but in 2 years Type 2 would be completely made up of the cheap stuff. Where's the collectability in that? The trading market would be very interesting though.
My local dealer sells his boxes for $95 and I can haggle him down to around $80-85. Their cost is somewhere around $55-65. $30 boxes would mean their cost is probably $18-22, just because cost and profit are cut by 2/3s doesn't mean demand would increase 3 fold. Now my dealer has to stock 3 times as many boxes as before to make the same amount of money, and he has a tough time getting Wizards to deliver boxes as it is right now.
Oh yeah, I think Alpha was $2 or $2.25 a pack.
Gizmo, here's how it would hurt the singles market. If I could buy a pack $.80-$1.00 chances are I would buy more packs (b/c I'm a cardboard junkie), lowering my need for singles. Sure, I still need some older cards, but in 2 years Type 2 would be completely made up of the cheap stuff. Where's the collectability in that? The trading market would be very interesting though.
T
TeamRegime.com
Guest
With regards to what something is worth, like the hoopla (or hoipa) about the cheeseburger...I believe something is only "worth" what the customer is willing to pay. A fine example is the rise and fall of the Comic Book market...60's, 70's, 80's and early 90's were it's heyday...then something went wrong...they charged too much for the book..added FOIL covers, HOLOGRAM covers, raised the prices, FLOODED THE MARKETS with #1 issues...alternate art covers....blah blah blah...I stopped collecting comics at Uncanny X-Men issue 300...it so happens to be the time I started playing Magic....trying not to get away from the topic...if the producers make a quality product consitantly, I believe people will buy it. In the case of 25.00 a Box...the Market would be saturated with cards, prices of the 25.00 a box cards would be "fallen empire" prices..while pre- 25.00 boxes would go slightly higher...theyre would also be a re-surgence of everyone playing BOOSTER draft and Sealed deck (THAT WOULD BE COOL)...Hasbro is ALWAYS gonna make a profit...theyre printing costs are minimal since they print overseas...I have an extensive background in "printing" and KNOW what it costs (in general) to make these cards....Id say for ONE pack today..like say 14¢ goes to packaging..paper (highest cost)...15¢..so a pack would ACTUALLY cost Hasbro about 29$ a pack...yes a pack.!! So when someone says theyll lose money...I dont think so...they MAY NOT reach theyre projected profit...but theyre not going to lose money.
Magic players are a dedicated genre....once they LIKE something theyre hooked for a looonng time. Unless something better comes along....hasbro KNOWS this...
I definately HATE it when anyone raises the price on anything...especially if the prices DOES NOT reflect an improvement....I HARDLY ever pay for packs, singles anymore.I have friends that GIVE me all theyre commons and uncommons and a few rares here and theyre..if I DO pay for cards there for Boostering and Pre-Releases....I KNOW Ive put enough money into the coffers of WOTC to buy a small car...Ive spent my share...Im rambling....so to answer the poll...NONE OF THE ABOVE....
HASBRO continues making profit....
Card market is flooded....
Shop Owners will see a boost of sales for a few months but will make diddly on secondary market cards...
Booster Drafts for EVERYONE!!!
Nicholas Knight
www.teamregime.com
Magic players are a dedicated genre....once they LIKE something theyre hooked for a looonng time. Unless something better comes along....hasbro KNOWS this...
I definately HATE it when anyone raises the price on anything...especially if the prices DOES NOT reflect an improvement....I HARDLY ever pay for packs, singles anymore.I have friends that GIVE me all theyre commons and uncommons and a few rares here and theyre..if I DO pay for cards there for Boostering and Pre-Releases....I KNOW Ive put enough money into the coffers of WOTC to buy a small car...Ive spent my share...Im rambling....so to answer the poll...NONE OF THE ABOVE....
HASBRO continues making profit....
Card market is flooded....
Shop Owners will see a boost of sales for a few months but will make diddly on secondary market cards...
Booster Drafts for EVERYONE!!!
Nicholas Knight
www.teamregime.com
R
Rando
Guest
Just remember that that $3.29 per pack also has to pay:
designers
marketing guys
distribution
artists
the people that work in the packaging plant
...and the cardboard, ink and foil it's all made with.
...and still leave enough to have a reasonable profit margin.
designers
marketing guys
distribution
artists
the people that work in the packaging plant
...and the cardboard, ink and foil it's all made with.
...and still leave enough to have a reasonable profit margin.
Personally, I think the singles market is overrated. I mean, this is a game first and foremost, and anything that might make it more affordable to everyone is fine by me. I mean, it's nice to have a card worth $50, but that's once it gets into your possession. To get it, it'd be great if it was $1. "Collectors" (more like "speculators") might like the high trade value, but the gaming audience should not be penalized for any decisions concerning the secondary market.
[on topic]I think you went a little overboard in your price cutting Hetemti, but I agree with you that they'd only help themselves perpetuate the game by dropping the price. Or by making commons suck less, turning the power cards into uncommons, and having the rare slot become a haven for truly lousy cards.
That way, folks like myself who have quit buying new cards because we can't afford to keep up might just change our minds and start buying again. And I can tell you straight up that several people I tried to get into the game refused to do so once they heard how much money it takes just to compete.
Oh, and please don't tell me how changing the power structure would screw up Sealed Deck events. All players would still get approximately equal strength cards - in fact, moreso, since the better cards would be more widespread, so, to me, that argument doesn't hold water either.
Of course, everyone would need to get over the idea that rare cards should be the good ones first, but if they explained it that way I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to object.
You never know though... [/on topic]
Oh, and everyone? Please restrict U.S.A. bashing to Multani's monthly FBI Baiting Escapade. We really don't need it here in a Magic forum.
Thanks.
That way, folks like myself who have quit buying new cards because we can't afford to keep up might just change our minds and start buying again. And I can tell you straight up that several people I tried to get into the game refused to do so once they heard how much money it takes just to compete.
Oh, and please don't tell me how changing the power structure would screw up Sealed Deck events. All players would still get approximately equal strength cards - in fact, moreso, since the better cards would be more widespread, so, to me, that argument doesn't hold water either.
Of course, everyone would need to get over the idea that rare cards should be the good ones first, but if they explained it that way I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to object.
You never know though...
[/on topic]Oh, and everyone? Please restrict U.S.A. bashing to Multani's monthly FBI Baiting Escapade. We really don't need it here in a Magic forum.
Thanks.
D
Dune Echo
Guest
When Wizards started suggesting that people pay $3.00 a pack, which the suggested retail price is NOT EVER FOLLOWED in any single shop I go to in Dayton, OH, I stopped buying packs entirely. I buy singles and boxes online. I used to buy a box from the shop in my hometown, which closed down, because the owner never charged more than $80.00 a box even when Wizards raised their prices each time.
However, now it's much more cost efficient to go to eBay and pay $65.00 for a box of cards with $5.00 in shipping. That's a total of $70.00. That is roughly $1.95 per pack. I would happily pay $1.95 per pack, and if online sellers can afford to sell boxes in bulk, then quite obviously, the company that makes them can too. Yeah, Hasbro won't make as much on the product on a per pack basis, but I'll start joining in booster drafts every Sunday again and start buying packs instead of singles. I can easily afford to pay 2.15 including tax for a pack of cards here and there, it's no worse a habit than smoking. So, if I joined in a weekly booster draft, card shops would get around 6.45 dollars a week they aren't getting from me now, and I'd be buying boxes at those same shops instead of online from then on as well.
Finally, if I start buying cards, how many others would too? How many people have quit playing Magic because it's too expensive? How many people don't try to keep up with Type II because the shear amount of money that must be spent? The last time I even attempted to make a Type II deck was when Rath and Urza's Block were legal, and I deffinitely didn't even have a Tier 1 deck then.
However, you have to realize that talking about this is futile. Unless you have stock in Hasbro and WotC, they aren't going to listen to us unless sales severely decrease because they know we're addicted. And if sales drop too much, then they'll just kill the product instead of trying to revive it. And even if you owned stock, you'd have to figure out a way for it to be seriously looked at by the company.
However, now it's much more cost efficient to go to eBay and pay $65.00 for a box of cards with $5.00 in shipping. That's a total of $70.00. That is roughly $1.95 per pack. I would happily pay $1.95 per pack, and if online sellers can afford to sell boxes in bulk, then quite obviously, the company that makes them can too. Yeah, Hasbro won't make as much on the product on a per pack basis, but I'll start joining in booster drafts every Sunday again and start buying packs instead of singles. I can easily afford to pay 2.15 including tax for a pack of cards here and there, it's no worse a habit than smoking. So, if I joined in a weekly booster draft, card shops would get around 6.45 dollars a week they aren't getting from me now, and I'd be buying boxes at those same shops instead of online from then on as well.
Finally, if I start buying cards, how many others would too? How many people have quit playing Magic because it's too expensive? How many people don't try to keep up with Type II because the shear amount of money that must be spent? The last time I even attempted to make a Type II deck was when Rath and Urza's Block were legal, and I deffinitely didn't even have a Tier 1 deck then.
However, you have to realize that talking about this is futile. Unless you have stock in Hasbro and WotC, they aren't going to listen to us unless sales severely decrease because they know we're addicted. And if sales drop too much, then they'll just kill the product instead of trying to revive it. And even if you owned stock, you'd have to figure out a way for it to be seriously looked at by the company.
M
MumboJumbo
Guest
Though the side topics have been quite informative, or at least entertaining, I'll stick to the original topic.
The suggested retail price of a box of boosters is $120. You'd have to be insane, desperate, or completely uninformed about the available options to pay that much. I've never paid more than $75 for a box, and I don't think that price is unreasonable.
People are complaining about the price of booster packs being too expensive, but I know I never once saw anyone complain about the price of a booster until the price was increased to $3.29 (around Mercadian Masques, I believe.) Magic boosters, the 15-card ones anyway, were $2.99 for quite some time (Ice Age through Urza's Destiny, I think), and a price increase didn't shock me. While one can make their own decision about the quality of the card mechanics/designs on the newer sets vs. the older sets, I think that the artwork has improved or at least continued to be high quality, foils have been added, playtesting has apparently improved (very few "broken" cards), and the finished product is still excellent. I don't pay any more for booster boxes than I did before the price increase, so the cost increase only affects me when I buy boosters now and then.
Suggesting that booster boxes be reduced in price to $25-$35 is silly (smaller booster boxes of say 15-20 packs might not be a bad idea and might attract buyers who wouldn't ever put up $75+ for a booster box, but the price per pack wouldn't be any less.) Would sales increase if 36-card booster boxes went for $25-$35? Undoubtedly. Would sales increase 3x - 5x to make up for the lost profit? No. I wouldn't buy 2-5 times more cards than I do now, and I don't think the average player would, either. I'd be putting the extra income towards other interests. I can get the cards I want with the money I invest currently. If I could suddenly get the same cards for a lot less money, I wouldn't be spending the leftover money on cards I didn't want.
I see so many people complain that Magic is too expensive. I'm utterly flabbergasted by such remarks. I know people who've had a blast playing Magic for months using only extra commons they were given for free. One need not buy singles, or booster boxes, to enjoy the game. If you want to compete at a tournament level then yes, the game is expensive. Too expensive. But you needn't play the game at that level to enjoy it. And if you are simply so obsessed with the game that you can't enjoy it without collecting multiple power cards for your casual games, then either find another hobby or accept the cost you've unnecessarily taken on and stop bemoaning the cost of the game.
I've been telling people since I started playing that you can have a lot of fun playing Magic with an initial investment of $20-$30 (a starter deck and a few boosters.) That's still true now. If you want to "keep up" with the game, or collect, it's not a cheap hobby. But one needn't do either of those things, and I know people who love the game who do neither. Magic is only as expensive as you make it. If you can't enjoy the game without buying a lot of cards, maybe you're in the wrong hobby.
Wizards is out to make a profit, and we aren't being gouged for it. You aren't required to buy new cards to enjoy the ones you already own, so don't blame Wizards if you think the game is too expensive. You can enjoy it without ever spending another dime.
MumboJumbo
The suggested retail price of a box of boosters is $120. You'd have to be insane, desperate, or completely uninformed about the available options to pay that much. I've never paid more than $75 for a box, and I don't think that price is unreasonable.
People are complaining about the price of booster packs being too expensive, but I know I never once saw anyone complain about the price of a booster until the price was increased to $3.29 (around Mercadian Masques, I believe.) Magic boosters, the 15-card ones anyway, were $2.99 for quite some time (Ice Age through Urza's Destiny, I think), and a price increase didn't shock me. While one can make their own decision about the quality of the card mechanics/designs on the newer sets vs. the older sets, I think that the artwork has improved or at least continued to be high quality, foils have been added, playtesting has apparently improved (very few "broken" cards), and the finished product is still excellent. I don't pay any more for booster boxes than I did before the price increase, so the cost increase only affects me when I buy boosters now and then.
Suggesting that booster boxes be reduced in price to $25-$35 is silly (smaller booster boxes of say 15-20 packs might not be a bad idea and might attract buyers who wouldn't ever put up $75+ for a booster box, but the price per pack wouldn't be any less.) Would sales increase if 36-card booster boxes went for $25-$35? Undoubtedly. Would sales increase 3x - 5x to make up for the lost profit? No. I wouldn't buy 2-5 times more cards than I do now, and I don't think the average player would, either. I'd be putting the extra income towards other interests. I can get the cards I want with the money I invest currently. If I could suddenly get the same cards for a lot less money, I wouldn't be spending the leftover money on cards I didn't want.
I see so many people complain that Magic is too expensive. I'm utterly flabbergasted by such remarks. I know people who've had a blast playing Magic for months using only extra commons they were given for free. One need not buy singles, or booster boxes, to enjoy the game. If you want to compete at a tournament level then yes, the game is expensive. Too expensive. But you needn't play the game at that level to enjoy it. And if you are simply so obsessed with the game that you can't enjoy it without collecting multiple power cards for your casual games, then either find another hobby or accept the cost you've unnecessarily taken on and stop bemoaning the cost of the game.
I've been telling people since I started playing that you can have a lot of fun playing Magic with an initial investment of $20-$30 (a starter deck and a few boosters.) That's still true now. If you want to "keep up" with the game, or collect, it's not a cheap hobby. But one needn't do either of those things, and I know people who love the game who do neither. Magic is only as expensive as you make it. If you can't enjoy the game without buying a lot of cards, maybe you're in the wrong hobby.
Wizards is out to make a profit, and we aren't being gouged for it. You aren't required to buy new cards to enjoy the ones you already own, so don't blame Wizards if you think the game is too expensive. You can enjoy it without ever spending another dime.
MumboJumbo