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nodnarb24
Guest
I never said that cyclopean mummy was the worst card, i just said it is worse then the giant.
Z
Zadok001
Guest
I have a full set of those Legends lands that grant 'Bands with other legends' to Legends of a specific color! 
Those are pretty friggin' low on the list, IMHO. Arguably superior to Great Wall, depending on which you think is worse, losing a land drop, or paying 3 mana.
Those are pretty friggin' low on the list, IMHO. Arguably superior to Great Wall, depending on which you think is worse, losing a land drop, or paying 3 mana.
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Neil Rigby
Guest
YellowJacket is obviously correct and Islands are by far the best card in magic
The worst card in magic therefor has to be Forest (Swamp in current environment)
are by far the best card in magicThe worst card in magic therefor has to be Forest
(Swamp in current environment)
D
Darth Dunk
Guest
I like Fork. It's cheap, it's powerful, it's... broken.
You pick a nice card, eh? OK, me too! And I'll pay less than Gray Ogre for it!
I also like dragons in any shape. Shivan is better than 2-headed 'cos it's bigger, and that's what we like with our dragons... Good abilities - pish!
"Bigger is Better!"
You pick a nice card, eh? OK, me too! And I'll pay less than Gray Ogre for it!
I also like dragons in any shape. Shivan is better than 2-headed 'cos it's bigger, and that's what we like with our dragons... Good abilities - pish!
"Bigger is Better!"
M
mpgsheep
Guest
hmm fork is pretty good but dual nature kicks ass.
1)It,s two creatures for 1!
2)Copy does not have echo!
However closely followed by some others - spore frog, wild might(2 mana - 5 damage), Common Courtesy rocks too
I am easily pleased
1)It,s two creatures for 1!
2)Copy does not have echo!
However closely followed by some others - spore frog, wild might(2 mana - 5 damage), Common Courtesy rocks too
I am easily pleased
T
Thallid Ice Cream Man
Guest
First of all, one would have to use up a card for Great Wall as well as for those banding lands. Second, by the time something like Adventurer's Guildhouse is useful, it will already be, at the soonest feasible time, turn 5 or so, since the average legend costs at least four mana. Thus, by then, the problem of wasting a land drop is not necessarily an issue. Besides, banding could help the legends kill something, and/or help prevent card disadvantage.
Meanwhile, Great Wall is utterly useless until AFTER their turn 5, IF the opponent is playing white and has SOME cards from Legends (an issue with almost all of the people with whom I play anyway) BUT not enough cards to know that NOT ALL CARDS FROM LEGENDS ARE GOOD BY DEFAULT, and/or is STUPID enough to either use Righteous Avengers or make a Turbo-Giant Slug, Illusionary Presence, Traveler's Cloak, or Aysen Highway deck (although white can disenchant the last two cards anyway) (that name - TurboSlug. Yeehaw!). One could not feasibly build a deck around Great Wall. If a sane person tried, he/she could easily solve its problem by switching to another color, other than white, since plainswalk wouldn't be a factor at all (whereas earlier, there was a 99.9978% chance that it wouldn't be a factor). One could maybe build a deck around those lands, with large numbers of legends. Such a deck would probably need to be heavily blue, both because a) it could include Blind Seer, which could lend banding at will and block very effectively, and b) it could include Sway of Illusion, also helpful here. There is no way to take advantage of a plainswalk defense as a deck's theme, and sideboarding it against white would only really matter if the opponent uses the Aysen Highway, which also helps your creatures anyway, and in this case Disenchant works better.
I agree, those lands are very bad. However, I consider them tied for second worst lands, where the worst is Halls of Mist, a cumulative upkeep land that can't be tapped for mana at all.
The bottom line is that Great Wall is a hoser of five cards, none of which are commonly used, two of which can be hosed by the most commonly-used white card (disenchant), being enchantments, and the other three of which can be hosed by the second most commonly-used white card (swords to plowshares), being creatures.
The lands you mentioned provide a tactical advantage - albeit a very weak one - against many more decks than the number of decks ever made in the history of mankind that Great Wall helps against (0.6). Hence, because those lands provide a slightly tangible advantage, while Great Wall doesn't, Great Wall is worse.
Meanwhile, Great Wall is utterly useless until AFTER their turn 5, IF the opponent is playing white and has SOME cards from Legends (an issue with almost all of the people with whom I play anyway) BUT not enough cards to know that NOT ALL CARDS FROM LEGENDS ARE GOOD BY DEFAULT, and/or is STUPID enough to either use Righteous Avengers or make a Turbo-Giant Slug, Illusionary Presence, Traveler's Cloak, or Aysen Highway deck (although white can disenchant the last two cards anyway) (that name - TurboSlug. Yeehaw!
). One could not feasibly build a deck around Great Wall. If a sane person tried, he/she could easily solve its problem by switching to another color, other than white, since plainswalk wouldn't be a factor at all (whereas earlier, there was a 99.9978% chance that it wouldn't be a factor). One could maybe build a deck around those lands, with large numbers of legends. Such a deck would probably need to be heavily blue, both because a) it could include Blind Seer, which could lend banding at will and block very effectively, and b) it could include Sway of Illusion, also helpful here. There is no way to take advantage of a plainswalk defense as a deck's theme, and sideboarding it against white would only really matter if the opponent uses the Aysen Highway, which also helps your creatures anyway, and in this case Disenchant works better.I agree, those lands are very bad. However, I consider them tied for second worst lands, where the worst is Halls of Mist, a cumulative upkeep land that can't be tapped for mana at all.
The bottom line is that Great Wall is a hoser of five cards, none of which are commonly used, two of which can be hosed by the most commonly-used white card (disenchant), being enchantments, and the other three of which can be hosed by the second most commonly-used white card (swords to plowshares), being creatures.
The lands you mentioned provide a tactical advantage - albeit a very weak one - against many more decks than the number of decks ever made in the history of mankind that Great Wall helps against (0.6). Hence, because those lands provide a slightly tangible advantage, while Great Wall doesn't, Great Wall is worse.
A
Azreal the Soulmaster
Guest
as best creature card, i have to go with well
Vesuvan Doppleganger
because it can become the best creature in the game your playing
Vesuvan Doppleganger
because it can become the best creature in the game your playing
D
Duel
Guest
COUNTERSPELL!
Or, failing that, Lotus Petal.
Or, failing that, Lotus Petal.
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Neil Rigby
Guest
If we are talking about bad cards surely sorrows path is near the top, jesus that card sucks.
D
Duel
Guest
The italian mana vault printmakes the top of my list.
zadok had the picture at one point. The bottom line:
They forgot the T: add 3 to your mana pool part.
all they had was the untap cost and the damage. THAT sucks.
zadok had the picture at one point. The bottom line:
They forgot the T: add 3 to your mana pool part.
all they had was the untap cost and the damage. THAT sucks.
T
Thallid Ice Cream Man
Guest
Well, both Sorrow's Path and the Italian Mana Vault can be donated, whereas donating the Great Wall doesn't hurt them at all. Besides, Mana Vault can be used in any type of deck that could be designed to take advantage of it, because it is colorless. The same is true of Sorrow's Path, being a land. In fact, if you gave your opponent a Sorrow's Path with Nature's Revolt in play and tapped it..... hehehe, evil. True, such a deck would have to be at least green (you give 'em the Path with Gauntlets of Chaos, so no blue is necessary), but a deck with the Italian Mana Vault could use Gauntlets of Chaos to give it away, and thus could be any color.
Great Wall is a horribly ineffective defensive card that only applies if a) you are playing white AND b) your opponent is playing with any of the following 5 cards: Giant Slug, Illusionary Presence, Aysen Highway, Righteous Avengers, or Traveler's Cloak. Let's look at these cards shall we?
Giant Slug is 1/1 for 1B and can gain landwalk of any type if your opponent pays 5 during his or her upkeep. Hence, an opponent would have to pay a total of 100 mana to deal 20 damage, spread out over 20 turns, through attacking unblocked with the slug. Of course, this is in a black deck, which could use Drain Life, but never mind.
Ilusionary Presence is 2/2 and has "During your upkeep, Illusionary Presence gains a landwalk ability of your choice until end of turn." It also has cumulative upkeep: U. This is a significant improvement over Giant Slug, but for it to attack 10 times, the opponent would have to pay a total of UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU in cumulative upkeep, and by then, they'd realize that most fliers are superior to it. Wind Drake is a notable example or a superior flier. The Presence is easily prevented with Swords, Afterlife, Topple, Wrath if need be, etc.
Traveler's Cloak, from Invasion, should be known to all. However, the creature can just be Wrathed away, the Cloak disenchanted, or either of the two cards can be thwarted in any of a number of similar ways (I didn't mean Thwart). However, it is worth noting as well that none of these three cards gives only plainswalk, just basic landwalk, so Great Wall doesn't always foil them anyway (There I go, using words that are names of counterspells for other purposes. Please don't dismiss this - NO! I did it again......).
Righteous Avengers is 4W for 3/1 plainswalk. This card is from Legends, so maybe one person on the planet who knows as little about this game as is necessary to think it good enough to use it can actually use it. It can be Humbled (in which case you can block it too), and it can have Wrath of God or Swords to Plowshares used on it. I know no one who has this card, nor do I want to.
Aysen Highway is 3WWW for an enchantment that gives all white creatures plainswalk. However, a deck using Great Wall would hopefully have creatures in it (to be able to block the other creatures, because all Great Wall does is allow other creatures to block). These creatures could attack too and get through unblocked (because the opponent had better have plains to be using Aysen Highway). If the Great Wall is in play, you can't get the benefits from the Aysen Highway either. If one was that desperate to stop Aysen Highway, Disenchant could be used, the creatures with whom the opponent would attack can be killed via Wrath of God, etc.
Duel: How is Lotus Petal better than Black Lotus? Hmm?
Great Wall is a horribly ineffective defensive card that only applies if a) you are playing white AND b) your opponent is playing with any of the following 5 cards: Giant Slug, Illusionary Presence, Aysen Highway, Righteous Avengers, or Traveler's Cloak. Let's look at these cards shall we?
Giant Slug is 1/1 for 1B and can gain landwalk of any type if your opponent pays 5 during his or her upkeep. Hence, an opponent would have to pay a total of 100 mana to deal 20 damage, spread out over 20 turns, through attacking unblocked with the slug. Of course, this is in a black deck, which could use Drain Life, but never mind.
Ilusionary Presence is 2/2 and has "During your upkeep, Illusionary Presence gains a landwalk ability of your choice until end of turn." It also has cumulative upkeep: U. This is a significant improvement over Giant Slug, but for it to attack 10 times, the opponent would have to pay a total of UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU in cumulative upkeep, and by then, they'd realize that most fliers are superior to it. Wind Drake is a notable example or a superior flier. The Presence is easily prevented with Swords, Afterlife, Topple, Wrath if need be, etc.
Traveler's Cloak, from Invasion, should be known to all. However, the creature can just be Wrathed away, the Cloak disenchanted, or either of the two cards can be thwarted in any of a number of similar ways (I didn't mean Thwart). However, it is worth noting as well that none of these three cards gives only plainswalk, just basic landwalk, so Great Wall doesn't always foil them anyway (There I go, using words that are names of counterspells for other purposes. Please don't dismiss this - NO! I did it again......).
Righteous Avengers is 4W for 3/1 plainswalk. This card is from Legends, so maybe one person on the planet who knows as little about this game as is necessary to think it good enough to use it can actually use it. It can be Humbled (in which case you can block it too), and it can have Wrath of God or Swords to Plowshares used on it. I know no one who has this card, nor do I want to.
Aysen Highway is 3WWW for an enchantment that gives all white creatures plainswalk. However, a deck using Great Wall would hopefully have creatures in it (to be able to block the other creatures, because all Great Wall does is allow other creatures to block). These creatures could attack too and get through unblocked (because the opponent had better have plains to be using Aysen Highway). If the Great Wall is in play, you can't get the benefits from the Aysen Highway either. If one was that desperate to stop Aysen Highway, Disenchant could be used, the creatures with whom the opponent would attack can be killed via Wrath of God, etc.
Duel: How is Lotus Petal better than Black Lotus? Hmm?
D
Darth Dunk
Guest
The thread starter specifically said NOT power 9, so that's why he said lotus petal. Also, if you play a shock with a black lotus you take mana burn. Heh heh.
Oh, and you forgot Zodiac Rooster from p3k - it has plainswalk.
Also, in the bit where you were saying why Great Wall is bad, you were saying that there are other cards that are better for handling the things with plainswalk than the wall. But, just because there is something more efficient doesn't make it bad. Why has nobody suggested Gray Ogre yet? Because it's still a creature. You can still draw enchantress cards from a Great Wall, still give Auratog +2/+2 with it, etc. And although half of the things it gets are better gotten with other cards, and the rest are better hosed with other cards, none of those other cards get ALL of the things the Wall gets. I've seen a deck whose sole purpose was to Phantasmal Terrain an opponents lands into a plains and then use that 'all white creatures plainswalk' thing (ok, the deck sucked), and a simple disenchant won't get rid of all of them, especially if they recurse, but a single wall will.
Since we moved from best card to worst card, I thought I should add some nasty ones.
Mishra's War Machine kinda sucks, although it's still a 5/5. Carnival of souls is pretty awful unless you combo it. Shelkin Brownie - come on.
Seriously, though, worst card is probably harder to get than best card, which is obviously fork (power 9 out), so lets get back to your arguments for other, less worthy cards.
Oh, and you forgot Zodiac Rooster from p3k - it has plainswalk.
Also, in the bit where you were saying why Great Wall is bad, you were saying that there are other cards that are better for handling the things with plainswalk than the wall. But, just because there is something more efficient doesn't make it bad. Why has nobody suggested Gray Ogre yet? Because it's still a creature. You can still draw enchantress cards from a Great Wall, still give Auratog +2/+2 with it, etc. And although half of the things it gets are better gotten with other cards, and the rest are better hosed with other cards, none of those other cards get ALL of the things the Wall gets. I've seen a deck whose sole purpose was to Phantasmal Terrain an opponents lands into a plains and then use that 'all white creatures plainswalk' thing (ok, the deck sucked), and a simple disenchant won't get rid of all of them, especially if they recurse, but a single wall will.
Since we moved from best card to worst card, I thought I should add some nasty ones.
Mishra's War Machine kinda sucks, although it's still a 5/5. Carnival of souls is pretty awful unless you combo it. Shelkin Brownie - come on.
Seriously, though, worst card is probably harder to get than best card, which is obviously fork (power 9 out), so lets get back to your arguments for other, less worthy cards.
T
Thallid Ice Cream Man
Guest
D'oh, forgot the no power 9 rule. However, if that is the case, we should stay away from Portal for considering worst cards. What is the Zodiac Rooster anyway? 3W for 2/2 plainswalk or something (that's a guess)? Oh well, even if there are six cards that Great Wall stops, that is no big deal.
Cards like Gray Ogre can do stuff (attack and block), albeit badly, on their own. Great Wall can only be used to any effect at all in conjunction with other cards (namely blockers). True, as an enchantment Great Wall can interact with other cards because it is an enchantment, but so can all other card types. Red and black are the two colors that can't easily deal with enchantments (blue/white/green have counters/disenchant/ tranquility respectively), but red has no plainswalking creatures, and black can play Terrors and so forth to ensure that the Giant Slug gets through anyway.
Great Wall is a global enchantment (giving it a disposition to being one of the worst cards in existence if it is already bad) and a horribly weak card hoser that mildly affects a total of six obscure cards. Hence, I don't see how you could say that something like Gray Ogre is worse.
Shelkin Brownie can attack for small amounts of damage, so it is better than Great Wall, which can't possibly deal damage (except with Opalescence, in which case there are hundreds of better options)
Carnival of Souls, while bad, can help in a speed black creature deck that needs mana to play a lot of small creatures quickly. Say you draw Swamp, Ritual, Carnival, and four bog rats or something on turn one. Then you could play them all that turn and empty your hand for the mere cost of 5 life. Yes, it sucks, but no, it doesn't suck as much as Great Wall. Besides, it is made for combo, so that is a horrible example. At worst, you can Donate it anyway.
A deck using Aysen Highway and Phantasmal Terrain is the one deck against which Great Wall might be helpful - except that one could Magically Hack the Aysen Highway for much greater effect than using Terrains (which tells you something about the skill of the player to whom you refer), and, more importantly, if that deck expected to win at all, it would have disenchants, counterspells, etc. to deal with an opponent's untimely Great Wall and other ways to deal with situations wherein the opponent isn't using plains (about 80% of the time on average)
5/5 is big, so Mishra's War Machine isn't bad enough to make you vomit on offense (once the upkeep is dealt with). It might make you a little queasy, but not to the point of Great Wall.
I'm willing to debate this more, but notice that the veteran members have already given up this debate, it would seem.
Cards like Gray Ogre can do stuff (attack and block), albeit badly, on their own. Great Wall can only be used to any effect at all in conjunction with other cards (namely blockers). True, as an enchantment Great Wall can interact with other cards because it is an enchantment, but so can all other card types. Red and black are the two colors that can't easily deal with enchantments (blue/white/green have counters/disenchant/ tranquility respectively), but red has no plainswalking creatures, and black can play Terrors and so forth to ensure that the Giant Slug gets through anyway.
Great Wall is a global enchantment (giving it a disposition to being one of the worst cards in existence if it is already bad) and a horribly weak card hoser that mildly affects a total of six obscure cards. Hence, I don't see how you could say that something like Gray Ogre is worse.
Shelkin Brownie can attack for small amounts of damage, so it is better than Great Wall, which can't possibly deal damage (except with Opalescence, in which case there are hundreds of better options)
Carnival of Souls, while bad, can help in a speed black creature deck that needs mana to play a lot of small creatures quickly. Say you draw Swamp, Ritual, Carnival, and four bog rats or something on turn one. Then you could play them all that turn and empty your hand for the mere cost of 5 life. Yes, it sucks, but no, it doesn't suck as much as Great Wall. Besides, it is made for combo, so that is a horrible example. At worst, you can Donate it anyway.
A deck using Aysen Highway and Phantasmal Terrain is the one deck against which Great Wall might be helpful - except that one could Magically Hack the Aysen Highway for much greater effect than using Terrains (which tells you something about the skill of the player to whom you refer), and, more importantly, if that deck expected to win at all, it would have disenchants, counterspells, etc. to deal with an opponent's untimely Great Wall and other ways to deal with situations wherein the opponent isn't using plains (about 80% of the time on average)
5/5 is big, so Mishra's War Machine isn't bad enough to make you vomit on offense (once the upkeep is dealt with). It might make you a little queasy, but not to the point of Great Wall.
I'm willing to debate this more, but notice that the veteran members have already given up this debate, it would seem.
D
Duel
Guest
Bottom line: Great wall can win you a game. In fact, great wall can be used against 3 cards. Mana Vault w/out the mana can be used with one..... See?
Great wall sucks. Italian mana vault just sucks worse.
Great wall sucks. Italian mana vault just sucks worse.
T
Thallid Ice Cream Man
Guest
Donate, Legerdemain, Gauntlets of Chaos, and a lot of tricks using Animate Artifact can be used to give an Italian Mana Vault away. More importantly, of the six cards that Great Wall protects against (Traveler's Cloak, Giant Slug, Aysen Highway, Righteous Avengers, Illusionary Presence, and Zodiac Rooster), two are from Legends, one is from Portal Three Kingdoms, one is from Homelands, one is from Ice Age, and one is from Invasion. Anyone stupid enough to think that Great Wall is worth using most likely wouldn't have played long enough to have it or to have heard of the five pre-Alliances cards. Moreover:
Traveler's Cloak is used almost exclusively in draft, or by players who, having recently graduated from Pokémon, wouldn't be playing against people who own enough cards to have Great Wall. (Of course, there are exceptions, but oh well.)
The same is true of Giant Slug, except that a) it's about 20 times as hard to get as Traveler's Cloak and b) that card might be used by someone who is obsessed with it (namely K9Archmage, for one), but most likely no one else.
Righteous Avengers has the same situation as Giant Slug, except that it is too boring for someone to be obsessed with it.
Zodiac Rooster is from Portal Three Kingdoms, which is illegal. I've never even seen one of those cards anyway.
Aysen Highway would provide as much advantage to you as it would to your opponent, because it is almost 100% guaranteed that an opponent controls a plains (the mana cost is 3WWW), and assuming that you have creatures (which you should, since all Great Wall does is help you block), your creatures would be able to attack unblocked as well. Great Wall prevents you from having this advantage as well as it prevents your opponent.
Illusionary Presence is directly inferior to Phantom Warrior, which isn't that good anyway and has been reprinted in the basic set, while the Presence was only printed in Ice Age. Who would use a Phantom Warrior with cumulative upkeep that isn't unblockable if the opponent controls no basic lands instead of Phantom Warrior? After all, the Illusionary Presence was a rare in a set that hasn't been printed for three years. Phantom Warrior was an uncommon that appeared in Weatherlight, Portal, Portal Second Age, probably Portal Three Kingdoms, probably Starter, and definitely Sixth Edition. Someone who was searching for an efficient nearly unblockable blue creature for three mana wouldn't find one (), but would settle for Phantom Warrior or Metathran Elite, not Illusionary Presence.
Meanwhile, look at the best example of a card that can be used with the Italian Mana Vault for great effect - Donate. Can anyone remember this card? I can't. Oh yeah, it was the one that should be banned in Extended.
Once someone sees the Italian Mana Vault, they'll immediately think of the Donate-Mana Vault combo. Thus, it has exposure.
One of the two most important things: YOU DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO USE AN ITALIAN MANA VAULT. YOU DON'T CHOOSE WHETHER YOUR OPPONENT USES ZODIAC ROOSTER OR ONE OF THESE OTHER CARDS.
The other most important thing: Donate + Italian Mana Vault is an OFFENSIVE COMBO. It actively deals damage to your opponent. Meanwhile, Great Wall is a weak DEFENSIVE card that relies upon other cards to be of any use (remember, a global enchantment can't block when there is no Opalescence in play. You need creatures.). There is little sense in blocking when you can attack faster. However, if you would pull back your White Knight to block your opponent's Righteous Avengers, except that you can't because you control plains, you need serious help.
BTW, aren't we talking about the English versions of the cards anyway? In that case, Great Wall is definitely worse.
Traveler's Cloak is used almost exclusively in draft, or by players who, having recently graduated from Pokémon, wouldn't be playing against people who own enough cards to have Great Wall. (Of course, there are exceptions, but oh well.)
The same is true of Giant Slug, except that a) it's about 20 times as hard to get as Traveler's Cloak and b) that card might be used by someone who is obsessed with it (namely K9Archmage, for one), but most likely no one else.
Righteous Avengers has the same situation as Giant Slug, except that it is too boring for someone to be obsessed with it.
Zodiac Rooster is from Portal Three Kingdoms, which is illegal. I've never even seen one of those cards anyway.
Aysen Highway would provide as much advantage to you as it would to your opponent, because it is almost 100% guaranteed that an opponent controls a plains (the mana cost is 3WWW), and assuming that you have creatures (which you should, since all Great Wall does is help you block), your creatures would be able to attack unblocked as well. Great Wall prevents you from having this advantage as well as it prevents your opponent.
Illusionary Presence is directly inferior to Phantom Warrior, which isn't that good anyway and has been reprinted in the basic set, while the Presence was only printed in Ice Age. Who would use a Phantom Warrior with cumulative upkeep that isn't unblockable if the opponent controls no basic lands instead of Phantom Warrior? After all, the Illusionary Presence was a rare in a set that hasn't been printed for three years. Phantom Warrior was an uncommon that appeared in Weatherlight, Portal, Portal Second Age, probably Portal Three Kingdoms, probably Starter, and definitely Sixth Edition. Someone who was searching for an efficient nearly unblockable blue creature for three mana wouldn't find one (
), but would settle for Phantom Warrior or Metathran Elite, not Illusionary Presence.Meanwhile, look at the best example of a card that can be used with the Italian Mana Vault for great effect - Donate. Can anyone remember this card? I can't. Oh yeah, it was the one that should be banned in Extended.
Once someone sees the Italian Mana Vault, they'll immediately think of the Donate-Mana Vault combo. Thus, it has exposure.
One of the two most important things: YOU DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO USE AN ITALIAN MANA VAULT. YOU DON'T CHOOSE WHETHER YOUR OPPONENT USES ZODIAC ROOSTER OR ONE OF THESE OTHER CARDS.
The other most important thing: Donate + Italian Mana Vault is an OFFENSIVE COMBO. It actively deals damage to your opponent. Meanwhile, Great Wall is a weak DEFENSIVE card that relies upon other cards to be of any use (remember, a global enchantment can't block when there is no Opalescence in play. You need creatures.). There is little sense in blocking when you can attack faster. However, if you would pull back your White Knight to block your opponent's Righteous Avengers, except that you can't because you control plains, you need serious help.
BTW, aren't we talking about the English versions of the cards anyway? In that case, Great Wall is definitely worse.
D
Duel
Guest
Um, no. Donate + Italian mana vault is a pathetic combo. The point is, putting great wall in your deck is a card which you already are using as well as possible. The mana vault, in fact, is a waste of valuable donates.
T
Thallid Ice Cream Man
Guest
It is a very pathetic combo, but it can deal a lot more damage(maybe 1 a turn) than Great Wall can(0). Italian Mana Vault is essentially a very weak offensive card, while Great Wall is a weaker defensive card that works on specific (six of them) contingencies. These contingencies are peculiarly rare; thus I ask you this: In how many games (specify how many are Limited) have you ever seen any of the six following cards - Aysen Highway, Righteous Avengers, Zodiac Rooster, Illusionary Presence, Traveler's Cloak, or Giant Slug - played?
The answer is probably in the single digits, with Traveler's Cloak having been used in the most games, I expect. Only in those games would Great Wall have been of ANY use, and even then, at least one creature would have to have been used in conjunction with it (to BLOCK the attackers). It does not help you win. It merely delays your loss against six cards and does nothing to the other 4000-5000 cards. Against Aysen Highway, it doesn't even slow your opponent more than it could you, because its effects apply to your opponent as well, and since a deck using Great Wall had better have creatures in it, Great Wall is not a help against that card. In constructed, almost no one would use Illusionary Presence because it is directly and significantly inferior to Phantom Warrior, which is bad anyway. Righteous Avengers is downright horrible, and so is Giant Slug. Zodiac Rooster will almost never be seen in America because Portal Three Kingdoms was never released here, and is small anyway. Traveler's Cloak is probably the most affected of these by Great Wall, but the creature upon which it was placed would still have to be blocked by another creature of yours, requiring that you keep one of your creatures back and prevent it from attacking, thus making it take longer for you to win.
Most importantly, shouldn't we be talking about the ENGLISH VERSIONS of cards???
The bottom line really is that Great Wall is a lot worse on defense than Italian Mana Vault is on offense (although neither one is remotely good), and Italian Mana Vault has about 1/100 chance of being bad on defense (namely, you are mana-screwed and your opponent uses Trickster Mage or something...), while Great Wall does absolutely nothing on offense. Great Wall therefore just barely edges it out.
From the looks of things, you merely skimmed through my previous post. This is not an indication of much (if any) respect for my points.
The answer is probably in the single digits, with Traveler's Cloak having been used in the most games, I expect. Only in those games would Great Wall have been of ANY use, and even then, at least one creature would have to have been used in conjunction with it (to BLOCK the attackers). It does not help you win. It merely delays your loss against six cards and does nothing to the other 4000-5000 cards. Against Aysen Highway, it doesn't even slow your opponent more than it could you, because its effects apply to your opponent as well, and since a deck using Great Wall had better have creatures in it, Great Wall is not a help against that card. In constructed, almost no one would use Illusionary Presence because it is directly and significantly inferior to Phantom Warrior, which is bad anyway. Righteous Avengers is downright horrible, and so is Giant Slug. Zodiac Rooster will almost never be seen in America because Portal Three Kingdoms was never released here, and is small anyway. Traveler's Cloak is probably the most affected of these by Great Wall, but the creature upon which it was placed would still have to be blocked by another creature of yours, requiring that you keep one of your creatures back and prevent it from attacking, thus making it take longer for you to win.
Most importantly, shouldn't we be talking about the ENGLISH VERSIONS of cards???
The bottom line really is that Great Wall is a lot worse on defense than Italian Mana Vault is on offense (although neither one is remotely good), and Italian Mana Vault has about 1/100 chance of being bad on defense (namely, you are mana-screwed and your opponent uses Trickster Mage or something...), while Great Wall does absolutely nothing on offense. Great Wall therefore just barely edges it out.
From the looks of things, you merely skimmed through my previous post. This is not an indication of much (if any) respect for my points.
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Duel
Guest
Actually, I had an unblockable/pump deck that used giant slug.....
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Thallid Ice Cream Man
Guest
as opposed to Metathran Soldier????
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Darth Dunk
Guest
I didn't know that!
Krikey! So you mean you never experienced the thrills of Zodiac Dragons and Rolling Earthquakes!?
Krikey! So you mean you never experienced the thrills of Zodiac Dragons and Rolling Earthquakes!?