Discussion in 'Current Events' started by train, Oct 24, 2002.

  1. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Should the government take some responsibility if the caught "sniper" in the D.C. uses the "I'm insane due to chemical weapons used in Desert Storm" motif...
  2. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    That's assuming it's a veteran from Desert Storm...
  3. MrXarvox The Prettiest Man Alive

    the government needs to take responsibility for their use of chemical weapons, regardless of whether they cause a citizen of their own to commit crimes.

    I find it interesting that the "sniper" that they caught was both black and a Muslim... >cough scapegoat cough?< maybe... though I can see any Muslim being pretty universally pissed having to live under Bushy...
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Did the US use chemical weapons in Desert Storm? I would have thought it would have been the Iraqis using it against us...
  5. MrXarvox The Prettiest Man Alive

    I thought the US did... something called agent orange? or was that a thing that they used to protect against chemical weapons?
    either way I know it was something nasty... <is not all that well versed in affairs of war>
  6. Svenmonkey Pants Chancellor

    Iraq had artillery shells that were outfitted with chemical weapons, but (I heard this somewhere, probably NPR) they weren't used because of an screw-up in the chain of command.

    Anyway, The guy was a Desert Storm veteran. He qualified as an Expert Marksman in the Army but didn't go into sniper school (just as I predicted). Anyway, they aren't sure if he did it or not, though the rifle they found in his car is the same caliber as the bullets found in those who were shot.

    Edit: By the way, guys, if you're going to go shoot random people from a hidden position, do it with a scoped sniper rifle, preferably an M24 (pinpoint accuracy at 800M, tiny muzzle flash, low noise) or an M82 (decent accuracy at 1000M, amazing power, ability to shoot through armored vehicles at over 1500M, ability to blow people in half). Anyway, I don't know much about guns other than Army issued ones, and I randomly shared this with you because snipers r0xx0r.
  7. EricBess Active Member

    I'm sure they targetted him because he was Muslim, X. They're probably just hoping that the REAL sniper will just kindly decide to stop shooting people because they have this guy in custody.

    Either that, or it was the government all along killing its own people just to make people even more upset with Muslims.

    Or maybe it's just that your definition of "scapegoat" isn't the same as mine. ;)
  8. MrXarvox The Prettiest Man Alive

    's why i said maybe. not bothering to rationalize it.. just a random bit of skepticism towards our government's ever-so-noble-and-fair agenda.
  9. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    My mom, who has a lot of speculation on these sorts of matters that is not what they'd tell you on TV but also isn't what most of the "underground" says, has a different opinion of what's happening, and I agree with her.

    [alternate scenario]
    The first five or so shootings were the doing of some other person who snapped and decided to start shooting people, then stopped. Then the rest of the killings were done by the two people arrested, who wanted to cash in on the media attention they thought they could get.

    The behavior of whoever did the first few killings is not necessarily consistent with that of the perpetrators of the rest. The first five were within a very small radius of each other; the rest were more spread out, and mostly in Virginia (instead of being within a 20 mile radius of my old house... incidentally my dad heard the fifth person get shot).[/alternate scenario]
    But I'm still not sure the two people who got caught did anything.
  10. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Orange was our chemical...

    I'm sure it wasn't easy being so close to the situation TICM, I hope this person is off the streets...

    As for being muslim... man they're under hard wraps lately, again and again and... but this guy, if the real deal, has been planning this for a while... But it wouldn't make sense to do this in the D.C. area... He would have had to travel all the way across the country just to do this... Something's fishy...

    Anyhow - if he goes the chemical way of motif, I think the gov't needs to really look at what's going on... And maybe chem. weapons need to be neutralized for any further conflicts...

    Of course, the gov't will spin this away from themselves...

  11. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    I'm going w/ a copy-cat scenario. I don't believe that the first five were shot by either of the guys that were arrested. One of them was linked to an armed-robbery. It just doesn't seem to fit my profile of a sniper.

    My wife disagrees (she studied criminology in college) as he could fit another part of the profile that the Feds have made up for the killer.

    In my opinion, the local authorites grabbed the first guy or two that would fit the bill so that people would calm down, parents could regain their sanity, and kids could return to school. It will keep people calm enough for now...


    " least until the next shooting..."
  12. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Maybe I've been watching too much CSI, but it seems to me that if they can link forensic evidence to the gun for 10 of the shootings, they've pretty much got their man. I don't know about why they can't link the other three; either they don't have enough evidence to make any tests from them or another person did it (most theories will fall in those camps). And they found a tripod and a "shooting hole" in the trunk of the car.

    This is tough discussing since new info keeps coming out and the last person to post probably has the most recent news.

    Anyhow, I think they caught the guy. He might have had something snap that caused him to kill 5 in over a 24 hour span, but after that I think he liked the notoriety and the power he seemed to have, holding an entire region hostage, and started to shoot people one at a time. Then he got stupid and cocky and contacted the authorities.

    My wife also told me that the Expert Marksman badge isn't that big of a deal since Army guys have to have some proficiency anyway in shooting; she got this from an interview with another Army guy about it.

    And Agent Orange in the Gulf War doesn't ring a bell; what does it do and why would the US might have used it?
  13. EricBess Active Member

    I agree with Spidey. Unless we are being lied to (which is a possiblity, but unlikely given the circumstances), the ballistics indicate that all of the shootings were with the same weapon. I find it unlikely that a copycat would be using the same weapon as the original shooter. It seems clear therefore that if they've found their weapon, it is the weapon for all shootings. At that point, it seems fairly clear that they have their man.

    Concerning grabbing the first guy that fits the bill and arresting him to calm parents, that's a really nice theory, but it fails miserably in practice. This shooter, from the very beginning, has shown himself to be arrogant and overconfident. What's more, after the first shooting, he started shooting ever couple of days. If memory serves, the longest streak he's gone without shooting is 4 days.

    Given his apparent desire for attention and overconfidence, I would think that if the wrong person were arrested, he would want to flaunt to the police that they can't catch him. The best way to do that would be to strike again immediately. That didn't happen. Regardless, if it had, not only would it not calm parents, but it would cause everyone to have even less hope that the police in the matter are competent enough to deal with the situation.
  14. Svenmonkey Pants Chancellor

    The Expert Marksmanship badge is the best badge you can get for the M16. It is, actually, a decent accomplishment, since it's done in the first few weeks of training, and most soldiers are not yet familiar with their weapons.
  15. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    I was watching CNN a little this morning and I saw them reveal some good evidence. It linked Mohomed (coincedence? I hope so) to a few of the shooting scenes. They interviewed someone that was present at the Alababama robbery and she only had sketchy evidence.

    Most of what has been found has been strictly circumstantial, but as my wife points out, that's all that is necessary to convict someone. Link him w/ the crime scene and he's done. I really hope that they caught him since my wife's aunt lives in Washington DC...


    "...and for the record, half of Texas can qualify for a Marksman medal..."
  16. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    You mean ballistic and forensic tests that show the gun found in the car fired the shots at the shooting scenes are circumstantial? What exactly does circumstantial mean then? I mean, if that's true, the only way the can positively link it is to get a confession or a videotape of him actually shooting the gun :confused:
  17. EricBess Active Member

    Actually, I'm sure there was a lot of circumstantial evidence. That's the evidence that they used to track the guy down. Once they caught up with him and found the gun, etc., then the evidence became much more substantiative, didn't it :D.

    Concerning the name and whether or not it is a coincidence, I'm not sure exactly what you are concerned with. But the fact is that he changed his name to that when he converted to the Muslim faith, so I don't think there's much of a coincidence.

    I think it is important to realize, however, as has been pointed out, that the actions of a few people do not dictate what the religion is all about.
  18. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Hell-yeah!, CSI rules, not too fond of CSI Miami though, but they do seem to have a much more sophisticated crime lab...

    Double hell-yeah!!! We practice all the time on squirrels, beer bottles, neighbor's pets, neighbors... you know, it's like second nature to us!!!...

    As for Orange Spidey - see Ura's explanation below...

    And I think Circum-stantial evidence is more a Jewish type of evidence than any other - just kidding!!!:eek: ;) :D

    edited due to very bad memory...
  19. Svenmonkey Pants Chancellor

    What the hell?

    And all of Texas can qualify for the dumbest state yet medal. :D
  20. Mongoose Man Gnome of Doom

    Agent Orange is a pesticide type chemical, I'm not sure if it was used in the Gulf War but I know it was used extensivly in Vietnam. It was used to quickly kill large patches of the jungle so that troops could go through it easier. The side effects of Agent Orange on people were later found out to be very dangerous, I can't quite remember what they are right now (I learned all this in class last year) but I'm pretty sure that once you've been exposed to it you can pass it down to your kids.

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