Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by rkoelsch, Dec 4, 2001.

  1. rkoelsch Angel Boy

    I finally was able to connect to Starcity after a couple of days of not looking at the site. While reviewing past articles I found one about a program that allows cheating in Apprentice. It was very enlightning.
  2. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Yups. Ferrett posted an article about getting flamed to death for posting a link, since it will wreck quite a few online tourneys, but put very simply, the Apprentice community needed that... :)
  3. BigBlue Magic Jones

    It is far better to Know that cheating is possible and happening, than to be oblivious to the fact that your Opponent can even be cheating.

    Knowledge is power.
  4. rkoelsch Angel Boy

    I really wonder if some of the people doing the cheating aren't the ones complaining about getting it out in the open
  5. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Lovely. So if I DO get to play in Apprentice, I have no idea whether or not my opponent is cheating.
  6. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Yah, but better to know that than to be totally unaware of the possibility. Means someone needs to make a fix ASAP.
  7. fuzzy510 I Don't REALLY Exist

    Let's give everybody another chance to throw the game into their favor! :D
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    E-League's the one running most of the Apprentice tourneys, right? Have they said anything about it? Fixes or rules or whatever?
  9. BigBlue Magic Jones

    [Tongue in cheek] [maybe not]

    Perhaps someone at WotC wrote it to ensure honest folks will use their Magic Online Product?

    Just Kidding of course, Magic Online is a fine product worthy of everyone at least checking it out (I hope they listen to me and price it cheap or give out demo's.)

    I saw a rumor (mentioned by someone playing who talks with the Wizards guy in charge occaisionally) that extended will be in the game, however I've seen more evidence that it will be standard only. The cards are there for Type one and beyond, however most of them are not coded and you can't include them in decks to play.
  10. rkoelsch Angel Boy

    well there was a response from which is another site like e league and they have software that can do deck checks which they run during their tournaments. I imagine that e league will get similiar software.
  11. RabidKimba I loathe the undead.

    I only use apprentice for testing with friends, and if your testing, then WHATS THE POINT IN CHEATING??? Most of the time, in pick-up games in random apprentice channels, its for testing. If you cheat in testing, your wasting your time, and your opponents time by not getting accurate results. Anyway, I can't compete in online tourneys, my net connection screws me over so much it loses me too many games. :(
  12. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Is this news to people?

    Backwash has been around for quite a while, at least a year maybe two. IN that time of regular activity on #apprentice I`ve never been aware of anybody suggested you could detect it.

    Talking to one of the main operators on #apprentice he says there is no way of detecting Backwash unless you can send him (as in the cheater) the programme that detects it. The detection programme has to be run by the cheater for you to spot it. The deck checks thing is not related I believe, Rkoelsch.
    And that script is not available openly. Only he has it because he wrote it himself.

    The simple fact of Apprentice is that your opponent can cheat - you`d never be able to tell if they are or not, and there is nothing much you can do about it.

    I rarely use Apprentice for the simple reason that at least 20% of players cheat on a game by game basis. And another 40% are bad losers. Apart from a few players who I have played against regularly and trust to be reasonable competition and not be oinkholes, I dont play online.
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    That's pretty much why I only play Griffy or other members from the CPA...
  14. Goku Sylvan Warrior

    That would be my case, but then I figured, "Well, I don't do that very often...."

    Therefore, I don't play online anymore. Heck, I even deleted the program.

    And this cheating has been going on for so long...Gizmo's got a point there. I became suspicious after people's decks started working TOO well...

    But then again, I was also able to find out from others that the people I were playing were cheating (not all of them, but enough to make me quit).
  15. theorgg Slob

    I'm happy that I am aware, and saddened at what this makes Apprentice... :(

    I applaud Ferret on exposing the malicious program that makes Apprentice useless... It's a sad time, but I guess I can still trust my friends...

    Always ask them to do odd things to see who goes first. If I remember correctly, rolling High is an option, but failng your die roll(getting lowest) isn't.

    IF they disconnect from that... you've probably a cheater on hand.
  16. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Meaning that the online Apprentice tournament I'm going to play in a week from Saturday means nothing at all.
  17. Mundungu grumpier than ever

    Expose the truth - even the ugly one - is a good thing.

    Giz : if Backwash was known in the community for so long, why didnt anybody speak about it openly before ??

    Although I never thought personally, that Apprentice could be flawless in terms of security, and that leagues with prizes in real money should be based upon using it.

    On the other hand, it doesn't mean you have to stop playing app. completely.
  18. Lotus Mox New Member

    I knew of Backwash long ago, I never spoke about it because I thought everyone knew it.

    When I first heard about it, yeah I was a bit rattled, but you have to realize that very few ppl actually use it, because you have absolutely nothing to gain from using it in friendly games or in the no-prize tourneys, It's definitely not 20%. I'd estimate it's more around 2%-4% of all the apprentice ppl.
  19. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Don't worry about it Isty, just go forth and do the CPA proud! :)
  20. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Im not saying 20% use backwash, but in my experience around 20% will try to cheat you in some way - usually by attempting to draw extra cards and hiding it by rapidly scrolling that they did so off the dialogue bar before you can read it.

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