Are we worried?

Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by Killer Joe, Nov 23, 2001.


How do rate "Counterspell"?

I LOVE Counterspell 0 vote(s) 0.0%
I LIKE Counterspell 11 vote(s) 45.8%
I could take it or leave it 9 vote(s) 37.5%
I HATE Counterspell 4 vote(s) 16.7%
  1. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Perhaps using Shock was a bad example on my part or else you're using it as a bad comparison.

    Although I can't think of any offhand, I'm sure there are burn spells that might sit in your hand useless on occasion (Thunderbolt maybe? I don't know...) So comparing them with your example of useless counterspells might be better.

    Perhaps Mana Leak would be a better comparison with Shock. After all, you're not doing 3 damage, you're doing 2; you're not countering the spell flat-out, you're allowing your opponent a chance to pay 3 to get it through.
  2. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Mana Leak wouldn't be so bad, but it's not in Type II.
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I didn't know we were still talking about Type II at this point, I thought we were just musing about alternatives (weak and otherwise) in general.
  4. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Counterspell may be undercosted for the environment now. I don't think it is though, since there are a few spells that can "sneak" something in under a counter-shield, especially when helped out by Birds of Paradise and Elves.

    The only think I can imagine happening to Counterspell is that it can be replaced in 8th with Mystic Denial, the Portal version that is identical except for a 1UU cost.

    I hope that doesn't happen, but then again, Counterspell is my Dad. :p
  5. fuzzy510 I Don't REALLY Exist

    Now, if you play Type II, you have to use some of the newer, different counters. I think that this is a breath of fresh air for the Magic community.

    However, I also think that Wizards is going to see what they've done, and put Counterspell back in for the next block. (I'm not sure of what it is.)

    Basically, this is just going to make things interesting.

    Or if you want to think of it this way: By eliminating Counterspell, each color's staple card has been removed. (Terror, Shock, Giant Growth, Disenchant being the others.
  6. BigBlue Magic Jones

    Someone earlier states that Dark Rit was taken out because of a certain deck.

    Well, that is precisely why Counterspell doesn't go away. No matter what sick and wrong combo deck is made out there, they almost always have to worry when facing a Blue deck with 1 card and 2 islands untapped, it allows them to make some crazy cards. If there were no counters, combo decks would rule the planet.

    I have a multiplayer deck with 20 counters in it, my friends hate it when I pull it out, but it is the only way to be sure you'll always have one on hand. The problem I had with counterspell was when they made it a Common. As an uncommon it was more limited and I feel rightly so. If they were to eliminate Counterspell it would cripple blue almost to the point on making it unplayable. While Syncopate is great for OD, how many would you play in a Type 1 deck? I'm not planning on it.

    Best 2 counterspells ever are Force, Arcane Denial(in certain decks), and Counterspell.

    Worst one's are Remove Soul, and Memory Lapse (if you didn't like it the first time, why let them cast it again?)
  7. Killer Joe Active Member

    Tell me you just did not 'dis' Memory Lapse!

    Miscalculation was a crappy counterspell, that one (can't remember it's name right now) where "X" is the converted casting cost of the spell, is a crappy one, but NOT Memory Lapse, it's a near friggin' "Time Walk"!

    Yo, "Z", take it from here.......
  8. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Memory Lapse is a good counter for tempo disruption. Calling it a "counterspell" is missing the point, since the idea is to set them back a turn, giving you more time to establish control.

    You use it on something stupid, like Llanowar Elves or some little creature.

    Desertion is one crappy counter. Sorry, if you're a fan of that one.
  9. TomB Administrative Assistant

    While you are correct that Spell Blast is a "crappy" counterspell, I have to disagree with you about both Miscalculation and Memory Lapse. They both suck, but at least you can cycle Miscalc. To me, Memory Lapse's only real use is in a mana-denial setup like a deck with Winter Orbs.

    OTOH, you haven't lived till you've acquired an opponents Air Elemental using Desertion...:D
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Apparently some counterspells are good in ANY deck and some are more situational than others :p
  11. fuzzy510 I Don't REALLY Exist

    Counterspell is good in any blue deck, while it doesn't always fit in the deck. But something like Remove Soul you need to have your opponent play a creature. So of course some are all-around good, but others are situational.

    Excuse me, but duh!
  12. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    But it seems that some people argue over the usefulness of certain counters. One person says this one sucks and another comes up with a use for it. That's all...
  13. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Memory Lapse is flat out amazing. After Counterspell, Absorb and Undermine it is by FAR the best counter in T2.

    Syncopate isnt fit to stand in the gutter and get splashed by mud as Memory Lapse drives past.
  14. rkoelsch Angel Boy

    Gizmo I realize you are a better player than me but I really can't understand your response. Both Syncopate and Memory Lapse are good counters. In the right deck both work well. I have a tendency to favor Syncopate as a permanent solution in a strict control deck whereas Memory Lapse is superior in a more aggro control deck where the temporal advantage makes up for the fact you will see the spell again.
  15. fuzzy510 I Don't REALLY Exist

    Dang, really need to start looking at all sides of the cube.

    I take back my "Duh!"
  16. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Eh? Giz, you feelin' all right? 'Cause, like, I have this vague memory of you REALLY liking Force Spike...

  17. Killer Joe Active Member

    Memory Lapse, even in a control deck, is good. If I go second and I'm playing U/W Control vs a Tempo Deck, I desperately need a turn 2 counterspell and ML gives that to me. Prohibit wouldn't work against a turn two Herd or some other 3cc spell, now would it. I wouldn'rt run four of them, but at least three.

    Spell Blast!
    Thanks TomB :D
  18. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    I dont think Counterspell would ever be banned now, theres no need.

    Maybe before Invasion, but this new "Cant counter me" mechanic is good for one thing: always keeping blue in line.

    I just hope to see some more of it rehashed, or reprinted in 8th.

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