Abuse of Ninja

[Notepad]

From Aaron F.'s latest article
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/af51

4) At one point, the Ninjutsu costs in the set were aggressive enough that a deck nicknamed “Ninfinity,” combining an Ornithopter-based Affinity build with a number of cheap Ninjas, was the deck to beat in the FFL.

Half-True, which I guess means false. We did have a “Ninfinity” deck in-house. Ninja of the Deep Hours had Ninjutsu , and Okiba-Gang Shinobi was to play and had Ninjutsu for a good while. On top of that, Shuriken had an equip cost of and was actually demolishing some of our other decks. But while cute and fun, the deck was not as good as normal Ravager Affinity, which is, of course, a good thing. So while Ninfinity was a great deckbuilding exercise that made for some funny stories, it was never the deck to beat around here.

I was wrong!

There. Now, if you'll please pass the ketchup...my shoe is a little stale...

 

[Oversoul]

Originally posted by Gizmo
Ninjitsu is, I believe, a Limited format mechanic like Morph. It doesn't really warrant paying much attention to trying to 'abuse' it, because it's not really abusable in the slightest,

Yeah, not like a little Exalted Angel ever killed anyone...

 

[jorael]

yeah, or how about grinning demon? Not tournament material perhaps, but getting a 6/6 your way from as soon as turn 4 is pretty nasty.

A friend of mine has 4 in his demon/vampire deck. Until now it the was never grinning stopped by putting a pacifism on it. Too bad.

 

[Spiderman]

I thought the idea behind "abusing" a concept was to "break" it, like make some infinite combo where you kill in one turn once the pieces are in place. If that's the case, using Exalted Angel (or Grinning Demon) as a counterpoint to Gizmo's statement doesn't really bear a lot of weight...

 

[jorael]

Hmm... good point. Let me rephrase my view: not abusable, but certainly not 'just for limited'.

Abusable and limited aren't 2 extremes on one dimension. The fact that a mechanic isn't a combo piece doesn't mean it has no place in constructed.

 

[Gizmo]

Ninjas are not as good as 187 creatures, but better than saboteur creatures. I think that describes them best.

 

[Oversoul]

I thought the idea behind "abusing" a concept was to "break" it, like make some infinite combo where you kill in one turn once the pieces are in place. If that's the case, using Exalted Angel (or Grinning Demon) as a counterpoint to Gizmo's statement doesn't really bear a lot of weight...

No, I don't think that abusing a concept is the necessarily same as "breaking" it or finding an infinite combo of some sort. In any case, morph is a mechanic that works outside of Limited (although not very many of the morph creatures are particularly good). I don't know about ninjutsu yet though...

 

[Spiderman]

"You" may not think that but it could be what most other people think of (else, why are you using the term "abuse" to begin with?)

Perhaps it would be best to ask CasualOblivion the intent of this thread since he was the originator.... CO, what did you mean when you said "abuse"?

 

[Oversoul]

"I" can consult any good dictionary and find that abuse means (among other things) "application to a wrong or bad purpose."

As in "abuse of authority."
As in "drug abuse."
As in "Nether Void decks abuse Sinkhole."
As in "Exalted Angel can seriously abuse Mana Drain."

Nothing about the word indicates that infinity or some such concept is necessarily involved.

As far as abusing mechanics goes, I don't think morph is anywhere near the most abusable, but it has its applications (and is far from being only useful in Limited formats).

 

[Mikeymike]

I don't think Ninja's are better than 187 creatures, I just think they are different...and they happen to work well together.

That's my favorite thing about this game. The cards themselves all have individual strengths and power levels that makes one 'score' higher than another, but you make the right combination of themes and you get a cohesive whole - even with sub-par cards.

Besides, ninjas are just freaking cool (I mean the abilities). You can string together some whacked-out sequences with them.

 

[Spiderman]

Oversoul: "Anyone" can take the dictionary definition and apply it. Whoopee. What the dictionary does or may NOT tell you is subtexts that the word may have acquired.

You don't find what "broken" means to Magic in the dictionary, do you?

 

[Notepad]

You won't find Mize, Beats, or Moondog, either. Never stopped me from taking the library books into the bathroom and stuffing them in the toilets. And I'll keep on doing that! Until they finally carry the full version, with Magic terms included.

That'll teach those crusty old ladies!

 

[Force of Will Smith]

I think Ninjas, like affinity have a basic template. The trick with them, and what will make them see tourney play is finding the best combination of 2-3 cards in order to make it work.

I think every ninja deck will run:


Artifacts:
4 shuriken (ALWAYS!)
thopters
possibly 2 Umezawa's Jitte (may be too slow for build)

Black:
A combination of removal: rend flesh/Hero's Demise/ Horobi's Whisper
2-3 Okiba-Gang (Discard 2 cards)
2-3 Throat Slitter (kill a creature)

Blue:
2 Higure (to fetch the ninja u need)
Mana Leaks/counsel of soratami
veil of secrecy


Your Turn 1: Swamp, Shuriken, ornithopter
Your Turn 2: Island, attack with thopter, pay U to put mistblade shinobi into play, bouncing their creature (for affinity) or pay 1U to draw a card
Turn 3: Equip shuriken to your ninjas, establish some board control.

How will ninja decks NOT work?

Assuming you have the right ninja,
U: Bounce a creature
1U: Draw a card
2B: Destroy "target" creature
3B: Discard 2 cards

There was some question about unblockability being a problem?
Veil of Secrecy is a returnable, recastable arcane spell you can combine with any other arcane spell or ninja. Combined with dampen thought/reweave, this could get pretty annoying.

Just imagine when ravager rotates out. What could compete with an early game like that?
Especially when mirrodin rotates out.
Then arcane, samurai, and ninjas will be tier one.
Someone may even build a monoblack spiritcrafter rogue deck that'll place 12th place.

ornithopter: cheap flying blue creature/ cheap black fear creature.

I think Shuriken's will be the next skullclamp, so grab them before they hit $5.

I think the deck will roung about 16-18 ninjas, which should be plenty, considering it has some control.

 

[Oversoul]

Oversoul: "Anyone" can take the dictionary definition and apply it. Whoopee. What the dictionary does or may NOT tell you is subtexts that the word may have acquired.

Subtexts? So "abuse" has perhaps taken on some connotation which is related to infinity and I just happen to have missed this?

As far as using the word in a Magic context, I suppose it means the same things as it does elsewhere. I've heard players use the word from time to time and probably used it myself. No one has any problem understanding what a word like "abuse" means (except here, apparently). And in my experience, abusing a card would usually fall into one of two categories. Either it refers to physically damaging a card in some way (the word "abuse" doesn't normally come to mind here, but it fits) or it refers to exploiting the properties of a card to an unusual or inordinate extent. Using a card to form an infinite combo would typically fall into this category but that doesn't mean it's that infinite combos are the only way to abuse cards...

 

[Spiderman]

Subtexts? So "abuse" has perhaps taken on some connotation which is related to infinity and I just happen to have missed this?

Yes, apparently you have.

Again, why use the term "abuse" if you merely just plan to find a way to use the card as in Single Card Strategies. If you merely plan to use it, you usually say "what's good with this card". If you're looking to abuse it, you usually are trying to find some way so you totally dominate your opponent, which is usually obtained by going infinite or setting up a hard lock that your opponent can't break.

Using a card to form an infinite combo would typically fall into this category but that doesn't mean it's that infinite combos are the only way to abuse cards...

This I agree with, and I stated as such when I first made the post concerning this particular area of conversation. If you look closely, I said "break the card, like going infinite". Not "solely going infinite". "Like", as in just one way to "abuse" (or break) the card.