5-Color, who here plays?

Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by Dune Echo, Nov 7, 2001.

?

Who here plays?

I play. 0 vote(s) 0.0%
I don't play. 5 vote(s) 71.4%
I want to play. 2 vote(s) 28.6%
  1. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Spiderman and Mikeymike have both expressed an interest in this format. Anyone else?

    I would like to say this about 5-Color. It's a blast and it feels like old school Magic. If the people you play with are casual enough, the ante rule is waived and you can still play your Contract from Below.

    The decks you will play are always going to be determined by your metagame, which will be wild and varied. Trust me. :) It's a blast to pull off a Defense of the Heart to search for Auramancer and Tradewind Rider and in the space of one play, take complete control of the game from a beatdown player. It's also the only place you will ever see Timmerian Fiends be played as artifact removal. :) I have actually played against a poison deck in this format and Sabretooth Cobra is a beating if unblocked!

    Anyone that is interested, post your deck ideas in the deck section and label them 5-Color: <deck name>. I'll be happy to critique any I find. If anyone wants to discuss card choices, I'll be happy to talk about them.

    www.5-Color.com
  2. CHA1N5 New Member

    I must second Dune's call for 5 discussion here...

    How many of you have seen Decimate Resolve?

    Show of hands?

    *raises hand*

    How about in the last 24 hours?

    *raises hand*

    :p

    Ok, put your hands down.

    CHA1N5
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It sounds interesting and I'll have to look it over. The slight obstacle would be getting my group to play it and getting ready for it. One guy pretty much builds his decks when he arrives so depending on how long he takes, that might be the night inofitself for him :p (although he builds large decks anyways).
  4. CHA1N5 New Member

    ... my Multani has a giant "W" written on him.

    Because that's what he is.

    CHA1N5
  5. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    It took me most of the night to pull my Wicked Madness deck together and I'm still tuning it every time I play.

    Spiderman: I recommend this, steal his cards and put it together for him. :)

    Like multiplayer, a 5-Color deck can be extremely casual. The best advice I have ever given was this: Play what you want because it's fun. As bad a card as it may be, I seriously want to use Timmerian Fiends as artifact removal just to see the look on the other person's face. :)

    I remember a game against a guy who had 2 Ashen Ghouls constantly popping out of the graveyard and I top decked Diabolic Tutor. Just what do I tutor for... ? My initial thought was Swords to Plowshares which someone actually recommended. I was sorting through my deck and found my Tormod's Crypt, which I had just added that day. My opponent had the game completely in control until I pulled that out, and I had added it because I thought it might be fun and useful against possibly Squees. Where else are you going to forget what you have in 250 cards and stumble across your answer?

    My beatdown deck under the decks section regularly gets stomped by control, but it's fun because for once in my time of playing Sapphire Leech is an awesome creature.

    This is why I love this format.
  6. rkoelsch Angel Boy

    we have some people that play it at a shop that i go to but I don't really have an interest in it. I have a hard enough time building 60 cards decks. I guess I should go ahead and put one together.
  7. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    I don't play yet, but intend to get into it as soon as I get my cards organized.
  8. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    I'd love to, but my obesssive-compulsive nature makes me write out my decklists. I didn't use to, but I've gotten into the habit, and now I don't see how I lived WITHOUT a full record of all my decks in all their stages of evolution.

    250 cards? Decklists? Hah. You only THINK I spend a lot of time writing stuff down NOW. :)

    Maybe someday soon. I've seen people playing, and I like the idea. How 'bout this? Someone send me 250 sleeves, and I'll play 5-Color. :D
  9. theorgg Slob

    I do believe that sleves are banned.

    Also, Zadoc, why don't you put only the colors you changed in the subsequent sections of your notebook?(I use to do that... the last entry had a MarSparity deck on it... with what was my one maro and two prosperities... :) )

    I've put together two 250+ card decks(never over 275, though) and do them one color at a time... I've played 5 ONCE, however, and it's chronicalled in my Odd PR report... :)

    It's fun, and not too hard to build. I do somthing cheesy and play with mostly blue cards that take out land from my deck...

    It might be stupid, but I like four forsights and four (Inv. Forsights)... Plus my contract.

    Also, Timmy's Fiends are great. REad 'em. If your opponent antes the card, it prevents everything the ability does. That means if you have BBB BBB BBB, your opponent will have to ante three cards. :{ )
  10. CHA1N5 New Member

    Before I played 5: I was anal about my collection. Absolutely all of my decks were fully sleeved.

    When I saw how cool the 5 color format looked, I wanted to build a deck.... but I was leery about not having a big pile of my collection in sleeves. So... I only played with cards I didn't care about:

    Blastoderm
    Seal of Cleansing
    Lightning Bolt
    Counterspell
    Dominate
    Dark Banishing

    Average cards that I have tons of. I suggest, for anyone leery of damaging their cards, start with cards that have little monetary value and high gameplay value. You'd be surprised how powerful a deck of all commons can be.

    [anecdote

    I built a 5 out of the commons box at my local shop. This deck, know as The "Hoopty" 5, defeated one of my regular opponents (with rares!) 3 games in a row, one night. It can be done. (another beauty of this format)

    [/anecdote

    Today: I have played 5 for nearly a year... and my deck is worth many hundreds of dollars, book value. Except, I have drawn on and thrashed so many of the cards, that they really have their true value only in my hands :) This is one of the features of 5 that I most enjoy: MY DECK.

    This is something that's hard to fully appreciate in T2, or any highly played environment where people trade ideas and build carbon-copy decks. This is why some people get very upset about deck copying and/or "stealing"... even so-called "concurrent development". These people really enjoy the thrill of development and recognition, but are existing in a paradoxically saturated environment.

    5 is different. Only at the Invitational have I ever seen or heard of two people playing the exact same deck.

    How did my post get to this point, when I began talking about sleeves? One uses sleeves to protect the investment they've made in their cards. If you truly get into the spirit of this amazing, casual format... you can/should quickly increase the "personal" value of your cards.

    What I mean is: I bought a Captain Sisay for $1... if I tried to play her in T2? Little to No value. Extended? Zero value. T1? Please!

    But, in 5? The Good Captain is A House (tm). I have squeezed so much more that $1 worth of value out of my Captain Sisay in this environment than I ever could have hoped to in sanctioned play. So, what's left to protect with a sleeve? Am I going to unload my Captain Sisay for enough money to make it worth my while? No. Not ever. Is another person going to want to give me what my Captain is worth to me? Not likely. And if they were... they would be another 5'er and they would appreciate that she had seen so much action outside of a sleeve ;)

    I encourage anyone who doesn't want to devalue their cards by playing them outside of sleeves: don't look at the cards you think of as valueable, today, and worry about devaluing them. Look at the good cards in your collection that you neglect and make them valuable.

    I've seen non-foil, Invasion basic lands used as the only card in a trade. You should too.

    CHA1N5
  11. Mundungu grumpier than ever

    I am really interested in the 5 color format but have the following problems :
    1) I'm a scrub and am afraid to loose too many times to the Ante
    2) I'd have to dismantle many of my existing decks to make 1 5 color deck
    3) I havent seen anybody playing 5 Color Magic yet
    4) My wife get crazy enough when I overload the dining table with my 60 cards decks
    5) I need to find a box in which it could fit !!
    6) I'm lazy...

    I guess that once I have resolved the problem 6), I'll be able to make a deck out of the 8000 + cards that I have that are not in decks already ...
  12. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Sleeves aren't banned per se... They're just frowned upon. And let me tell you, playing with sleeves will be a bear. It's hard enough to shuffle 250 cards.

    Orgg: Foresight/Manipulate Fate isn't a bad idea. I would still rather play Impulse though. Just put the cards you don't want on the bottom of your deck. Anyone that plays this format should know that 4 Contract from Below is almost a requirement for any deck. And they're amazingly cheap. I picked up an Unlimited version for $1.00.

    The store I play at makes ante entirely optional. Jeweled Birds become cantrips, you only shuffle your deck before drawing cards with Contract from Below, and Timmerian Fiends are just fun. If you do play ante, play tradebacks lightly or even tradeback for food/drinks. I read about one guy that keeps himself fed during a night of playing that way.

    Mundungu (and anyone else debating this): Trust me, just put together something scrubby at first. That's pretty much what my Wicked Madness deck was - nothing but the left over cards in my collection. And it's extremely balanced against my Beatdown Collective deck.
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Dune: Are you kidding? Then I won't get to play MP with the other three or dual if there's only one other person :p

    And you had to look through a 250 deck with a Tutor? Is there a time limit? :p

    Zadok: So what's the problem with writing down the decklist? Just write it in text and transfer it to Apprentice or something ;)

    Mundungu: Glad you're semi-active again.

    1) From what I hear, you can agree not to play for the ante part but still use the ante cards.

    2) Write down your existing decks so you can put them back together

    3-4) That is a problem... :)

    5) Use a booster box or one of those small cardboard boxes you can get a gaming shop

    6) Can't help you there... :p

    This does sound interesting, I'll have see if I can run this by my group and try it out.
  14. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    "Zadok: So what's the problem with writing down the decklist? Just write it in text and transfer it to Apprentice or something."

    Well, the problem is, I have a memory with about a 30-second lifespan. That means that when I build a deck, I rarely remember its exact contents. So when I'm writing down the decklist, I dig through the physical deck. I'll see a card, and remember how many I have, and I can write it down. And all is good with the world.

    Dig through 250 cards to remember 1 card? Erps?

    As for the sleeve thing... :) Who said I wanted the sleeves for 5-Color? Maybe I just want SLEEVES. My old ones are kinda beat.
  15. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Thankfully, no! When CHA1N5 usually starts searching for cards in his deck, I know he is most likely going to win. If you're looking for the ToolBox/Silver Bullet type deck, his is the deck to look at. It's out on www.5-Color.com under the Deck Lists section. It's called "The Canned Pants Society."

    (Personal side note to Spiderman, my deck doesn't rely on silver bullets, the tutors just come in damn handy when I cast them and can get a Contract from Below or whatever the situation warrants.)

    1) This is true. And it works well and it's fun.

    3) Get two decks together, and make them fairly balanced. Play someone with it. Get them interested. Then make them make their own.

    6) Who isn't? :)
  16. CHA1N5 New Member

    ...or...

    Choose your own obsession:

    1) Buy a loaf of bread.
    Remove the bread from it's bag.
    Now you have a handy carrying case for your 5.
    (the bag, not the loose loaf of bread.) (although, that would be something.)
    Not to mention; you have a snack!
    (the loose loaf of bread, not your 5.) (that, too, would be something.)

    anyhoo...

    2) Plan your deck, in the loose sense...
    Do you want to play Control?
    Beatdown?
    Combo?
    Mid-range goodstuff?

    {Bear in mind that I am gearing this advice towards those that are hesitant about the format and do not wish to dimantle their existing decks and commit pricey rares to the unshaven masses.}

    I'll tackle the hardest one, first:
    Combo: There are a ton of viable combo's in 5. There are also a few that are just better than others. Traumatize/Replenish is a good'n, Moma/Prints/Stroke is another. Problem is: every card in those titles is rare... some of them in the $10 range. :( So, skip the dedicated combo idea, if you're a newbie.

    [caveat

    Dream Halls is a combo deck that can be built with very few rares, aside from the Halls, themselves. Just a note, if you simply must play combo, on a budget.

    [/caveat


    Control: While there are rares that really make control tick (Wrath, Rout, Deed, Disk, JonSnake, Masticore, etc.) It is possible to play control in this format with few, if any, rares. Just take some:
    common/uncommon counterspells (counter, dismiss, arcane, forbid, mana leak)
    some efficient spot removal (terminate, plow, d-blow, orim's thunder, hull breach, FTK, Nekrataal, Fire/Ice)
    some mass removal (breath of darigaaz, savage twister, wash out, plague spitter, um...)
    and some card-advantage/drawing (fact or fiction, whispers, sylvan, treasure trove, dominate, concentrate, 'PHID, Avenging Druid- The Green PHID, Browse, Magpie)
    top it off with a robust finisher (Fireball, Sengir Vampire, whatever)

    I'm not saying that your first control deck (with 0 rares) is going to be amazing... but it you and a friend are both just starting, what's the problem?

    Beatdown: many of the best creatures for beatdown are actually not rare:
    Hyppie
    Flesh Reaver
    Pouncing Jag
    Wild Dogs
    Jackal Pup
    Kird Ape
    Cloudskate
    Dauthi's
    Carnophage
    Albino Troll
    Blastoderm
    River Boa
    Skyshroud Elite
    Mogg Fanatic
    Fallen Askari

    you get the idea.

    Add in some efficient burn and removal to clear the way:
    Bolt/Incinerate
    Plow/Terminate

    Maybe some cheap counters, maybe not:
    Arcane, Mana Leak

    Some card advantage:
    Contracts (the 2nd most broken card, ever, and it costs $1 or less on eBay)
    Standstill
    Fact
    Sylvan

    Proceed to beat.


    Mid-Range: this catch-all really crosses over between all archetypes... you can make control with a combo kill, beatdown with combo, beatdown with control. You get the idea. My first suggestion is Beatdown/Control:

    Thornscape Battlemage
    Thunderscape Battlemage
    FTK
    Uktabi
    Avalanche Riders
    Thrull Surgeon
    Treasure Hunter
    Auramancer

    Control the board with your creatures.

    Mid-Range is likely the best place to start, if you're a newbie. Just put together a bunch of cards that are really good in limited and play the card advantage game.


    3) Build your deck: this is a lot of fun... and believe me; if you are at all motivated by my suggestions, here, you're going to find that 250 cards is not really that many when it comes to adding fun toys to your deck :)

    Seriously:
    90-100 mana sources (my recommendation)
    18 cards for each color x 5 colors = 90 cards
    that only leaves you with 60-70 "variable" cards in your deck, and you already know what it's like to build a deck with 30-40 variable cards.


    And if you're looking for cards to top off your colors... here are some items that many, many decks play with:

    Blue:
    Ophidian
    Fact or Fiction
    Impulse
    Allied Strategies

    Red:
    Bolt
    Fire/Ice
    FTK
    Recoup

    Green:
    Sylvan
    Harrow/Land Grant/Granger/Elder
    Reclaim
    Wall of Blossoms
    Rancor
    Thornscape Battlemage

    Black:
    Restricted Tutors :)

    White:
    Plow
    D-blow/Seal/Thunder


    Artifacts:
    Mind Stone
    Fellwar Stone
    Jeweled Bird
    Zuran Orb
    Chromatic Sphere
    Juggernaught
    Lotus Petal

    Gold:
    Hull Breach
    Goblin Legionnaire
    Jungle Barrier
    Dromar's Charm

    Lands:
    Mirage Fetch Lands
    Gemstone Mine


    ~$1 rares that can make your deck better: (making no promises about prices in your area)
    Blueprints
    Abundance
    Hanna
    Mindless Automaton
    CONTRACT
    Trade Routes
    Firestorm
    Phelddagrif('s)
    Back to Basics/Destructive Flow



    And last but not least:

    While this might seem daunting at first, you get used to it. It's just like looking through 3-4 normal decks :) I play about 30 Tutoring effects in my deck each game... and you get better at it. If you're upset about the time it takes, have your friends/opponent help :) If you've never seen 3-4 people dive into a 5 looking for that game-swinging spell, you haven't lived :)

    CHA1N5
  17. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Zadok: You're much more casual than me then. I tend to go through the deck and write down every card I have in there, not relying on my notoriously poor memory :). I can see how going through a 250 card deck is daunting but hey, it just takes a couple of "extra" minutes. I've been cataloging my collection with Magic Suitcase and doing 700 cards at a time; takes about 15 minutes.

    Cha1n5: We've had a request to put your post on the front page. Is it possible for you to copy/paste it to the Article Submissions under your real name? Otherwise I'll just link to this thread tomorrow.

    I had to chuckle at that comment about letting your opponent help go through your deck. Who needs Jester's Cap or Grinning Totem? :D

    Are you familiar with newer, recent cards? I haven't checked out the website yet but has Domain or that one card, Battle of Wits(?) made an appearance?
  18. CHA1N5 New Member

    Yeah, it's really a feature of the [new word]casualness[\new word] of the format. I must admit: there are times when I'll smack my opponent's hand if he tries to help me tutor :) But that's only when what I'm getting is not obvious, and I want to be dramatic ;) Often, tutoring is for land or a card that is frequently tutored for (my Library, for instance). In those cases a simple "want help" is enough to let my opponent know I'm in the interest of time :)


    Ah, alomst forgot to mention:

    If you're referring to the collection of cards that WotC calls "Domain" cards... not many of them are any good. Allied Strategies is the exception that proves that rule. I suppose that Tribal Flames isn't total Junk, but in the face of staples like Bolt/Incinterate/Fire... it's a second cousin. Collective Restraint and Global Ruin are 2nd tier cards that could be put to good use, they're just not amazing.

    oh, and Battle of Bad Ideas is banned.

    CHA1N5
  19. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Domain decks have made an appearance at the Magic Invitational actually. However, they did not do so well. Certain domain cards are very strong in 5-Color though:

    Allied Strategies
    Gaea's Strength, but you have to play original dual lands to make it truly reliable.

    Also, just to show you all a possibility, during the first 5-Color Invitational tournament, someone (Brian Kowal?) played a nearly all Invasion deck with only 4 Contracts from Below in it. The deck did fairly well (4th, I think).

    Before you all start making decks, it's advisable to check out the Banned/Restricted list. There are some cards that are just simply broken in this format and are not fun to play against someone who has them. Battle of Wits was actually banned and Diabolic Tutor was restricted before the spoiler from Odyssey was even leaked. (Benefits of being at the Magic Invitational.)

    I have to say, I would like to see Phyrexian Portal put back into the game again, just to see if it's really that time-consuming/broken.
  20. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I'm not too familiar with the term myself, since I don't use the newer cards, but that one, Coalition Victory, where you win if you have all five basic land types and control creatures of all five colors, it would seem fairly easy to meet those conditions here.

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