Saviors of Kamigawa Preview

Killer Joe

New member
A "Road..." Article soon to follow about the pre-release.

One thing to note: I over heard someone say that Twincast is a $20 card already. Jeezsh! Blue rules! :p
 
L

lycan of the dark

Guest
ok heres the dillio
the hole set looks like its the deck bassers
every set has umm
mirroden had darkstill and the ravinger, arcbound, and all the indistructable stuff to base decks around and from what ive seen this is ware we pull a full combos out of our area
but thats just me
:D
 

Killer Joe

New member
lycan of the dark said:
ok heres the dillio
the hole set looks like its the deck bassers
every set has umm
mirroden had darkstill and the ravinger, arcbound, and all the indistructable stuff to base decks around and from what ive seen this is ware we pull a full combos out of our area
but thats just me
:D

I totally recognize most of the words but I can't for the life of me figure out what your warning us about.

Is the barn on fire?

;)
 

Killer Joe

New member
What, the epic spells or Bo-diddly-dang's chitty-chat? :rolleyes:

Sorry. :(

Did I mention Twincast is Blue?...and that it's a $20 card already? :p
 
J

jorael

Guest
Killer Joe said:
What, the epic spells or Bo-diddly-dang's chitty-chat? :rolleyes:

Sorry. :(

Did I mention Twincast is Blue?...and that it's a $20 card already? :p
That card is as much hyped as Promise of Power was when Mirrodin came out.
Twincast is good, but not that constructed worthy. The card is very cool, but 20 dollars?!


*fondles his Misschievous Quanars (.50 cents each)*
 
F

Force of Will Smith

Guest
peh.. the problem with fork was that it was restricted.. copying red spells can be awesome cause that might mean deal 8+ damage...

in type 2 people will use it with kodama's reach... i don't see that being a $20 card...
4-5 max..

or people will try a direct damage sozokan deck... tapping 2RUU.. to return your 5 lands.. deal 10 damage, copy it...

but you can do the same thing with more versatility with relentless assault.


the problem is that if you use it within it's color.. the gains really arent that amazing..
or the spells are already board sweeping.. a twincast'ed timewarp maybe good... but a twincasted washout or a twincasted evacuation doesnt really do much..

ill cast echoing truth for 1U.. oh wait... 1UUU.. ill bounce 2..
3UUUU to take 2 turns in a row...
it works well with brainfreeze and possibly intuition... other than that im not really sure it'll catch on..
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Force of Will Smith said:
peh.. the problem with fork was that it was restricted..
It isn't restricted anymore and it isn't seeing use in any tournament decks (in any format) that I know of.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Oversoul said:
Well, a big problem with Fork was the double red mana requirement...
Yet another example of a throwaway line that needs further explanation that I have to ask because you didn't simply include it in the above.

Why was the double red requirement a problem?
 

Killer Joe

New member
Spiderman said:
Yet another example of a throwaway line that needs further explanation that I have to ask because you didn't simply include it in the above.

Why was the double red requirement a problem?

Double casting cost spells are no longer considered too much of a set back anymore, or at least in todays standard environment. There are a ton of double casting cost cards like Kokusho, Wrath of God, Hinder, Eternal Witness, etc...

Fork is red and red doesn't need that ability. Twincast is blue and in todays mono-blue control (MUC) deck it'll do nicely either as a main deck card or in the sideboard. I think especially in the mirror match.

Twincast will be an expensive card, just more now than later. It's a nostalgic notion that old abilities should exist in today's world of magic. That's one reason, another is that it IS good no matter how you want to try and disregard it.

{You can't nail Jell-O to the wall and you can't disregard Twincast}
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I didn't think double mana requirements were that tough back when Fork was king though... I don't think they're that tough in general.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Spiderman said:
Yet another example of a throwaway line that needs further explanation that I have to ask because you didn't simply include it in the above.

Why was the double red requirement a problem?
Why "yet another example?" It's not as though I forgot to include an explanation of some sort. It's not even a "throwaway" line. What am I throwing away?

The double red mana requirement has been an continues to be a problem for Fork and many other cards because it makes them more difficult to cast in a multicolored deck (and/or a deck that uses sources of colorless mana such as Wastelands). This is not complicated. I did not exclude it by accident or out of torpescence. I excluded it because it is very basic.

One good example is Counterspell. Mana Leak, from its effect, seems strictly inferior to Counterspell. The only advantage it has is that it does NOT have a double colored mana requirement. And I have seen Mana Leak favored over Counterspell in many decks.

Fork is a nice spell. I've used it a lot myself. But most decks that would really appreciate its effects are not monored. Fork for 1R would have seen more use. We'll probably never see such a spell, but a blue Fork might be even better.

I'm still not sure how much play Twincast will see. Fork isn't as playable as it once was, and this was probably taken into account before it was reprinted in blue. But we'll see...
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
"Throwaway line" is my pseudo-keyword for your one-liners where an explanation would be great to explain your initial line, yet I have to post to get it.

Like I said, I don't find it very hard to get two colored mana of the same type in any deck (if you build it right; having 16 land in a multicolored deck is obviously asking for trouble). In fact, by turn 3, you're gonna have two colored mana of some type in a two color deck. If you don't, you're most likely mana-hosed a bit and that's another problem. So I don't think it was ever a problem, it being double mana'd.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
It's more complicated than building a deck properly. Double colored mana requirements do limit things. That's why Mana Leak is so good. If I am playing a deck that's blue and black with some red cards splashed in, it's going to be easy for me to find a single blue mana very early on. I can drop a Swamp and an Island or Underground Sea or Polluted Delta or City of Brass or whatever. and have a Mana Leak ready on my second turn. If I'm using Counterspell instead, that Swamp is only going to get in my way unless I want to wait a turn.

With Fork it's worse because most multicolored decks are going to use more blue cards than red. If I want to be casting Fork by my third turn, I'm going to have to be using either a very red-heavy deck, or give up on casting any of my nonred spells that cost more than one mana until after my third turn (and that's assuming I use Fork on turn three). Fork would simply have been more versatile if only a single mana source had been taken up for the red mana needed to cast it, and the other mana could have been anything.

Of course, Fork has been and is pretty good and it doesn't need to be made any better...
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
If you're building a deck that's heavy on the double casting cost, you simply include more of that color or add cards such as the fetch lands to increase your chances of getting that double mana on the second turn, if that's your goal.

I'm not saying Fork needs to go in every deck, but I don't think it's as complicated as you're making it out to be.
 

Killer Joe

New member
For years UW Control had to deal with Dbl CC's like Wrath of God, Counterspell & Capsize. Using Twincast will not be that difficult and I'd be willing to bet that PTQers will utilize [abuse] it in some manner.
 
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